66 thoughts on “Which aircraft should be eliminated in the first MMRCA downselect?”
Anonymous
This is what the gifting of F-16's to Pakistan can do to U.S economy. If U.S have not provided F-16's to Pakistan for free, they must have had a chance to go home with an order of 126 F-16's. All lost because of stupidity. No wonder the Indian's want to kick out the F-16's in the first instance itself.
I voted for…. 1) Mig 35: No need to put all eggs in one basket. India already has too many JVs (PAKFA, MRTA, BRAHMOS) with Russia and has already bought a lot from them (Gorshkov refit, Mig 29K, 42 more Su 30MKI at $78mn per plane, T90 tanks, Mig 29SMT upgrade and a lot of other things I can't think off).
2) EFT : Too damn costly ($80mn would have been understandable but at almost $100mn/plane, this is just too much). IAF does not need another air dominance fighter but needs a bomb truck with decent A2A capabilities. The EFT is too costly and its A2G ability is not proven until yet.
f16..what the f.?? its nt what we want..they r selling us somthing whose production lines are abt to shut netime.. we still have a good airforce..no need to push F16s in haste
I really don't get why people hate the F-16IN so much. IMO, its the best plane in the competition. Just because Pakistan has been operating it makes no sense! The Block 70 (Super Viper) is light years ahead of the Block 52+ that the PAF operates. The F-16 is a time-tested platform and its electronic warfare and data fusion capability is actually the best among all competitors. First, even I used to think like you guys, always disregarding the capabilities of this plane just because it was an old design and also used by Pakistan. But when I actually researched a lot I found out the Super Viper has wayy too many trick up its sleeve. It can't get any better.
Also, I read an article in ToI or somewhere that the MMRCA planes are mostly going to be stationed along the eastern boarded with China. I just don't get the paranoia and hysteria behind choosing the F-16. It will be a great complement to the Mirage 2000-9 that the IAF will operate for the next 10-15 years.
If you guys are scared about sanctions, I really don't get it. India is already a nuclear nation and the USA signing the nuke deal with us shows that they trust India with nuclear fuel, forget radars and avionics. Also, they know India will be the only country left that can challenge China. Pakistan will keep crying for sometime but Americans have realized that the future lies in the biggest democracy of the world and not an almost failed state that plays a double game under the mask of War on Terror (I think I don't have to be explicit here).
I hope we buy something before the technologies become obsolete. Babus and Netas need to work faster now that the cumbersome work of evaluation has been done by IAF.
F-16 : Old tech, and if we're buying it only for the AESA radar, would be a bad deal with no tech-transfer, intrusive monitoring laws the US would force us to comply with etc.
Mig-35: Need to move away from Russian dependence. We're already paying through the nose for Gorshkov, FGFA and supplies for existing aircraft. Plus the Russians apparently force us to ship the entire engine back to the motherland even for minor repairs.
I actually favour combination of FA/18 and Typhoon. The navy can have the Super Hornets, and IAF can go with the Eurofighter. Allows us to firm up our relationship with Europe, and EADS apparently has a great offset plan. Also, by throwing some additional peanuts at USA, we get hands on the only operational AESA radar out there on a proven platform.
In near future Pak will be offered even current version(F-16 blk 70) by means of fighting against terror by US , that will make invaluable in mmrca buy.
Gripen : Good jet ,but Many products are from US , so tot will face some problem.
Mig35 : Nice one , but same tech mig29,mig29k,Su30mki,FGFA . their will no meaning for mmrca .
Typhoon / Rafale : New and good tech , but only main problem is heavy $$ .
F-18 :now india is almost Americanized (ex.,P8I, Hercules,C-17 and may go for Pariot SAM /Javelin/Spartan aircraft). but F-18 is matured AESA radar , can down any chinese /pak aircraft's , it could be main advantage to india & also in on time delivery . but the one problem is no 100% tot, may be upto some level .
I would prefer the Rafale, Mig-35 and the SH to enter the next round. But since selecting SH and Mig-35 out because of politics and selecting Mig-35 means we will become a Russian Air force. SH and Rafale are the best bet. If the Americans have not played politics with us and continued to support terrorists as they do, It just don't seem wise to allow our money to be diverted to terror activities. Hence the last one being the Rafale. If the French did not create issues like that of Scorpene and the the deal is completely detailed and to the satisfaction of both parties, it can be the Rafale in IAF service.
1) Beyond two fighters it will be difficult to continue downselect game.
2) It reduces the pressure off of the surviving candidates to implement the positives of downselected planes eg the low price, lack of intrusive agreements etc.
3)MOST IMP: It(downselect method) will be misused by a lobby to eliminate a good possible contender from the race and having cleared it's way, candidate will become totally unresponsive to India's subsequent bargaining. For example: the yank lobby who proposed Scenario 8(Typhoon out)
GUYZ COME ON F-16 IS THE WORST AIRCRAFT IN THE LOT…………IT JUST A VINTAGE STUFF IN NEW PACKING……IF THE IAF & THE BABUS IN MOD SERIOUSLY WANTS TO GO FOR A CHEAP AIRCRAFT THEN HOPE THEY GO FOR MIG-35,THAN THE F-16IN.THOUGH I MIG-35 WOULD BE MY LAST BUT ONE OPTION.SO,HOPE EVERY ONE GOT WHAT MY LAST OPTION IS. MY OPTIONS ARE 1.TYPHOON-FOR ITS 15 HARD POINTS AND THE LATEST TECH OF EUROPEAN GIANTS LIKE GERMANY,UK,ITALY.WHO R MASTERS IN CRAFTING THE AUTOMOBILES……WITH 15 HARD POINTS TYPHOON IS A RIGHT CHOICE FOR AIR SUPERIORITY ROLE. 2.F-18E/F FOR ITS RADAR 3.GRIPEN-IN FOR ITS COST EFFECTIVENESS 4.RAFALE-COZ ITS NOT BEING USED BY ANY ONE OTHER THAN THE FRENCH SO WE CAN MAINTAIN HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF SECRECY AND TOT.AND THE FRENCH R CONSIDERED RELAY ABLE PARTNERS WORLD WIDE(THOUGH COSTLY). 5.MIG-35(NOTHING GREAT TO SAY EXCEPT TRUST VECTOR AND THE FRIENDSHIP.WEAK IN DECEPTION COUNTER MEASURES AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE 6.F-16 I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT COZ PAKISTAN AND CHINA WITH THEIR F-16C/D AND ITS DERIVATIVE BY REVERSE ENGINEERING J-10 & JF-17 KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT THAN EVEN WHAT LOCKHEED MARTIN PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT. BEWARE INDIA ABOUT THE F-16
SHIV -I REQUEST YOU TO DO THIS SURVEY ON HEADLINES TODAY AND INDIA TODAY WEBSITES.I THINK YOU CAN DO IT USING YOUR INFLUENCE.I AM SERIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SECURITY OF YOUR BLOG. HOPE YOU CONSIDER MY REQUEST
I DONT BELIEVE THIS……………THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 VOTES BEING VOTED TO F-16 EVERY 10 MINUTES.I WANT TO KNOW WHO THOSE GREAT NEW FOUND FANS FOR THE F-16 IN INDIA ARE…………COME OUT GUYS.
Please help to eliminate the the Americans F-18 and Swiss Gripen-In by voting against them. The both countries are looking dangerous to our nation. America for politics and Swiss for economy as they are giving safe locker to our corrupted money.
I am happy with F-16s statistics. No need of Gripen, because We have LCA-Tejas. And No need to buy F-18 because of Radar only. Though we don't have the capability to develop such a radar but, we can do it by the help of Israel.
My Vote stands for F-16 & MIG 35. Gone are the days, when Russians behaved like friends, now they have only 1 objective, sell outdated Tech & discarded designs to India @ very high prices. Americans, they pull the plug during wars. If not for US tech in Eurofigher Typhoon & Swedish Griffen, I would have loved to see this in IAF Colurs. Seems we have to be contended with Rafale Fighter. Offcourse French People can never be trusted, they will sell Rafale to India & missile tech to Pakis.
1) F/16IN =same old wine bt with new bottle,even the orginal manufacturer USA HAS STOPPED accepting it .USA wan to earn as much it can b4 closing her line completely.2nd reason is PAF factor which we can't ingnore,dey would b masters of every nick nd hook of F/16..If we wan to learn more bot dis particular plane den we can ask from israeli airforce or singapore airforce as we did in da past , F/16IN holds no future… 2)Mig35 – lol we already have dis plane in our inventory as MIG 29K .Mig 35 is only an avtaar of mig 29k ,so with TVC engine and AESA radar doesn't sounds a big improvment or is't ? ? If we wan to buy dis den y we need dis mmrca drama ,we just simply could asked from russia. Say BIG NO TO MIG 35 PLZ 3) TYPHOON holds termendous potential so in wining dis contracts .. According to american scientist association it's 2nd best fighter jet ever made after F/22 raptor… If it wins the contract ,den india will be the most beloved nation in EUROPE . A new superb plane without any strings attached is my choice.Nothing comes kloser to dis beast and don't worry about the priceline,dey will make it a sweet deal coz dey want to stay in india . 4)SAAB GRIPEN NG – LOW maintenace nd cheapest of all .ATRUE VALUE FOR MONEY IF WE DON'T BUY IT THEN LETS GET PREPARE TO SEE DIS BIRD IN OTHER SIDE, DA PORKIS AIR FORCE SIDE .They surely want this beautiful bird and sweden never going to raise objection coz SWEDEN MEANS BUISNESS..A must buy for us nd IAF shown its interest too ..My 2nd best choice. 5 )RAFALE- well i have not much 2 say xcept sum fancy stuff like spectra EW and i think rafale is not much intrested in india as compared to BRAZIL OR UAE .Let show who's the boss here.In place we can buy UAE nd OMAN new spanky mirage 2000-9 which dey retured for RAFALE birds . A good choice for stop gap 4 IAF is buy 62 M2K-9 b4 mrca birds arrived. 6)F/A 18 aka bomb truck ,da strongest contender with strong politikal backing ,a combat proven too. In da end 80 F/18IN + 126 gripen NG will surely win dis contract…
Why cant we cancel MMRCA (bcoz of scenario #1) and buy F-35 bcoz it cums at cost of US$89 million less than typhoon and little more than other aircrafts…but giving more money we could get a tactical bomber with stealth features…even if we dont get TOT…
nop RA!!!!! not every1 alike coz of sum favurite role model here like myself m against F/16IN due to its closing of lines from america itself,am against mig 35 coz we already operating MIG 29K nd MIG 35 is a derivative of it xcept sum fancy items like AESA radar nd TVC engine,did i left anything else m8 ???what is whole process is all about of mmrca stands for den if we r fixed on mig 35 only else we could jus simply asked from russia long back… All we want is a capable ,value for money ,no strings attached,life time supports and reliable partner which comes with either TYPHOON or GRIPEN NG….BOTH HOLDS A GREAT POTENTIAL IN FUTURE WHICH U CANT SIMPLY IGNORE .
Selecting Super hornet seems the best bet. Even though the U.S had put sanctions against India, I don't think that they will be able to do it again or atleast will not risk another setback with loss of Rupees and loss of good relations with India. The main reason for selecting the Super hornet can be that they will deliver the right product at the right time, not like the Russians and the French who will keep asking more money even after signing the deal. So proper signing of the deal will ensure speedy delivery of a tried and tested platform like the super Hornet into the Indian Air Force within the shortest amount of time.
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
I feel it in my fingers I feel it in my toes SUPER HORNET is all around me And so the feeling grows It's written on the wind It's everywhere I go, oh yes it is SUPER HORNET SUPER HORNET It is quite obvious guys Obama Uncle coming in Nov then they will sign some document for making ToT transfer easier. And then in perhaps December. MOD will declare that Hornet stole Air force Ka DIL. Since they may be some delay in signing contract owing to opposition from left or may ToT transfer delay in senate, and since according news report french have offered 40-50 Rafale in short time.Indian would also go for some Rafale because of the delay caused in signing contract for SH. So no need of the poll because Americans have already scored their goals.
Hey Anal anon@5:38PM.. you expect everyone to believe that LM India pay their employees to come here and vote on a blog that the govt wont even consider? Just because you are a Bharat-Ratshak moron, doesn't mean everyone else is.
Are you people even reading the the blog entries? THIS VOTE IS FOR ELIMINATION, NOT INCLUSION.. jeez
I feel sorry for poor Shiv for dealing with these dumbums
confrontation rafale & ef2000 2007 Solenzara Rafale won vs EF2000 8-1 dogfight December 2009 UAE atlc Rafale won vs EF2000, 7-1, 4v4 4-0, 2v4 3-1 downgraded weapon. rwr & r77 simulation (40km).
EF2000 is good interceptor high altitude, bad air-ground bomber, no carrier version, no combat proved.
Rafale omnirole concept, good air defense, good air-bomber, anti ship, nuke strike, low rcs and hard to lock,carrier version, war electronic, combat proved since 2006.
EF2000 & Rafale complete the one to other, not made for same mission.
Remember it was the viper pilots that were drilling the brains out of the su-30 pilots, to a point where the mki pilots preferred not to go 1-1 with them. IAF has lot of respect for the vipers. The super viper on offer will be something special.
Please don't sell out the interests of the nation with euma, cismoa, beca…. I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen celebrating the handcuffs we are about to put in our hands with superbugs with all the treaties. Don't sign up for virtual imperialism.
Does anybody here know what role the IAF has in mind for the MMRCA? All the contenders have their own technical merits,something that each one does better than the rest. So a logical decision can be made only once we know where the MMRCA is going to be slotted in the IAF ORBAT. Is it to excel at counter air or replace our existing air to ground assets. The reason I ask is that we already have an air dominance fighter in the SU-30 MKI and the LCA MK2 is going to build up the numbers sooner than the MMRCA. AESA can't be the only thing as we can upgrade the MKI BARS to IRBIS which though not an AESA still has a hell of a performance. Super-cruise can't be it cause 117s upgrade to the SU-30 will let it super-cruise. And these upgrades are bound to be cheaper than buying 126 new jets and their associated infrastructure overheads. None of these planes can out range or outmaneuver the SU-30. So at the high end we have the SU-30 and the low we have the LCA; where does the MMRCA fit? Assuming we don't want duplication of capabilities we can rule out the Gripen and the Hornet. The first is too close to the LCA and the second to the SU-30. Out of the remaining four,if we make a choice based on on paper performance(speed,agility,rate of climb)we can say that the Eurofighter and the MIG-35 are likely to fare better. Of the two the Eurofighter would be the better choice as with having excellent air to air credentials it would also bring a more credible air to ground package. On the other hand if range and tonnage are the primary factors we can expect the Rafale to come out on top.
So once again what does the IAF want from the MMRCA? If our much loved defense correspondent could get that answer I for one would be much obliged.
Apart from the thoughts above other deciding factors will be cost,political "benefits" vis a vis the selling country, TOT and corruption (presence or lack of). So for now your guess is as good as mine. :)_
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
So dont get too worked up over it
Then what?? This is an exercise to guage public awareness or to know political mindests or to guage effectiveness of PR exercises conducted by verious agencies ?
Not an exercise in futility, you bambhole !!! A bad thing to do.
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
So dont get too worked up over it
Then what?? This is an exercise to guage public awareness or to know political mindests or to guage effectiveness of PR exercises conducted by verious agencies ?
Not an exercise in futility, you bambhole !!! A bad thing to do.
Please don't sell out the interests of the nation with euma, cismoa, beca…. I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen celebrating the handcuffs we are about to put in our hands with superbugs with all the treaties. Don't sign up for virtual imperialism.
Wait for DRDO solutions to fall down from a tree top and meanwhile get scr**d by Chiangs and Seikhs!
THE MMRCA IS FOR INTERCEPTORS OR THATS THE MAJOR ROLE REQUIREMENT. ONLY ONE WAY OF FINDING WHICH AIR CRAFT IS SUITABLE THAT IS HAVING A MOCK INTERCEPTION OF SU-30MKI LETS SEE HOW EACH AIRCARFT FARES THEN LET THE AIR FORCE DECIDE AS IT WILL BE PRIMARILY USED FOR INTERCEPTING INFILTRATORS, F-16 VS F-16 HOW ABOUT THAT THINK?? NOT GOOD
THE OTHER SERIOUS IMPLICATION FOR F-16 IS THE HIGH RATE OF INVOLVEMENT OF THE TURKS IN THIS PROJECT.WE ALL KNOW ON WHO'S SIDE THE TURKS R…..WE HAVE SEEN IT IN THE AFGHAN CONFERENCE HOW THE TURKS WERE TRYING TO SIDELINE THE INDIAN INFLUENCE IN THE REGION………….COME ON GUYS LETS VOTE FOR THE ELIMINATION OF THE F-16'S…………WE R NOT GONA GIVE A PENNY TO THE TURKS……..!!!
DRDO solutions dont fall from the tree, they come out of the backsides of the people who work there.
Sometimes(by which i mean all the time) it takes time for products to come out of DRDO. Meanwhile we can import and make other countries richer and advance technically. Whats the problem with that?
F-18 is a good bomber, but with it India can not dare to defend or offend against either Pak or China for a long time to come.
As in all such eventualities, Pak will invariably get angry and America will be obliged to appease Pak by donating it with F-22 or equivalent and also sanctioning against India.
So F-18 is a unilateral peace maker. With it we can be attacked, but we can not defend.
Any of them with true AESA radar with range >= 150 KM in headon mode and 80 Km in tail mode with related BVR air to air missiles matching the technology and range of radar will do. It should be capable enough of carrying BRAHMOS and KH 31A antiship missiles for air to ground/sea role. I donot thing India is buying these for frontline defence but for air dominance and sea denial role.
These along with the aircraft's adaptabilty in all terrains will make it formidable asset for the next 25 years. I the same aircraft's naval version could be available that will be the ideal choice for IAF as it will bringdown the per unit cost and ease down on logistics.
Taking into account the above factors and amongst the available options i feel MIG 35 with Brahmos carrying capability and advanced Russian/Israeli AAMs will make up for a perfect choice provided the Russians come out serious on the AESA front.
Under no circumstances the Russians should be made able to think that this contest is in their pocket. They should be made to come out with the best technologies available on the earth or at the par with it. They should not be selected only on the grounds that they fulfill all the basic requirements of the RFQ but on the merits of quality, superior technologies and off course the justified and competitive prices.
Even The us President don't want to give jobs to India so why we should buy from their company flights f/16in, f18/sh, and how we can expect they will give full tot they won't consider your (India)benefit they will do for their company and country first so please don't trust American companies here is the latest report that the US president speaks about jobs reference link (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article550001.ece) The line that probably has Indian Ministry of External Affairs officials worried is this: “When I took office… we put forward a new economic plan — a plan that… is focused on making our middle class more secure and our country more competitive in the long run — so that the jobs and industries of the future aren't all going to China and India, but are being created right here in the U.S…” so please think about India and their peoples security, and see which country supports the welfare of India
even though the US and the west gives us lip service on kashmir and paki terrorism, our stupid babus suck up to them. they will give them whatever they want including purchases of aircraft etc even though they try to prevent jobs from moving to india. you ask why? because in return they give their children visas to come and live in the west. this is how sick our country has become!
Sardar Manmohan Singh is not allowing us to buy a simple cannon ; do you think he will allow a fighter plane ? How dare we even attempt to defend ouselves ? It is so non secular and anti minorities
I shall however vote for the most secular( for bombing the majority ) and democratic mmrca. Please advise
@superviper have forgot how mig21bisons drilled a thousand holes in f16s butts?does that mean bisons are superior to mki?typical american thinking!!f22 vs su30mki.F22 won.americans clapped hands & jumped like kids saying we beat u!whats da big deal?won using superior weapon(stealth vs no stealth).what happened when ur f16s got hammered/demolished by ww2 era mig21bisons?despite having adv. In tech& generation gap u lose horribly.thats what we indians call a victory.bang bang.hahahaha Sorry for being offtopic but I said it.hah take that sucker!
"It is so simple chatters! Which aircraft can bring down F-18 and Mig-35? …"
It is not that simple. To start, most modern aircraft can easily bring down an F-18. It is an agile bomber that the US Navy fills with fuel for patrols. The Mig-29/35 is comparable to the Rafale, Typhoon, lighter Mirage, Bison, Tejas, but all are prey to a F-16, Gripen, JF-17.
India's quick answer to the F-16 and JF-17 is the Su-30, but this must change. If the Tejas isn't redesigned, the F-16 or Gripen must be selected to provide the capabilities, number of aircraft and sortie rate.
Another issue is engine commonality between Medium(2) and Light(1) aircraft, and domestic production. Will a RD-33 fit in a Tejas? Can the Falcon and Su-30 share engines and where is it built? Will Dassault, EADS or GE transfer engine manufacturing to India to also be used in a Tejas? If Volvo supplies engine cores, like they do for the Gripen, could India finaly have a functioning Kaveri and engine development program?
Lastly, should the Tejas be upgraded and Mig-29 replaced, or Tejas replaced and Mig-29 upgraded? IMO; the Tejas was a good manufactuing and design exercise to develope domestic knowledge, but is a dead aircraft. The Mig-29 just needs a make-over until it's eventually replaced by a domestic, 5th-generation aircraft.
@ Shiv Aroor. I want to ask you 1 Question? You have conducted poles but Can we have your preference that Who Should Win the Race for the MMRCA Contract?? I am asking this question because u have looked into many planes and have lot of knowledge. Please input your preference so that we can clarify or doubts.
This is what the gifting of F-16's to Pakistan can do to U.S economy. If U.S have not provided F-16's to Pakistan for free, they must have had a chance to go home with an order of 126 F-16's. All lost because of stupidity. No wonder the Indian's want to kick out the F-16's in the first instance itself.
shiv I dont believe the voting. Americans are doing playing the game here. you should have some system for only Indians to vote.
Jai Hind
Shiv,
have a heart. This is the most abnoxious thing to do. Public openion for buying aircraft ? You want to test whoes kitty has more money? horrible!
I am sorry then your sense of responsibility in being a defence correspondent is doubtful !
I request you to pull it back.
I voted for….
1) Mig 35: No need to put all eggs in one basket. India already has too many JVs (PAKFA, MRTA, BRAHMOS) with Russia and has already bought a lot from them (Gorshkov refit, Mig 29K, 42 more Su 30MKI at $78mn per plane, T90 tanks, Mig 29SMT upgrade and a lot of other things I can't think off).
2) EFT : Too damn costly ($80mn would have been understandable but at almost $100mn/plane, this is just too much). IAF does not need another air dominance fighter but needs a bomb truck with decent A2A capabilities. The EFT is too costly and its A2G ability is not proven until yet.
For this kinda voting we should have voters registration … though i doubt voting here makes any diffarnce for anyone to play game here ….
and i think voting till now is fair enough eurofighter and rafel got list votes ….
f16..what the f.?? its nt what we want..they r selling us somthing whose production lines are abt to shut netime..
we still have a good airforce..no need to push F16s in haste
[email protected]: feel free not to vote! and if you're offended, tough.
I really don't get why people hate the F-16IN so much. IMO, its the best plane in the competition. Just because Pakistan has been operating it makes no sense! The Block 70 (Super Viper) is light years ahead of the Block 52+ that the PAF operates. The F-16 is a time-tested platform and its electronic warfare and data fusion capability is actually the best among all competitors. First, even I used to think like you guys, always disregarding the capabilities of this plane just because it was an old design and also used by Pakistan. But when I actually researched a lot I found out the Super Viper has wayy too many trick up its sleeve. It can't get any better.
Also, I read an article in ToI or somewhere that the MMRCA planes are mostly going to be stationed along the eastern boarded with China. I just don't get the paranoia and hysteria behind choosing the F-16. It will be a great complement to the Mirage 2000-9 that the IAF will operate for the next 10-15 years.
If you guys are scared about sanctions, I really don't get it. India is already a nuclear nation and the USA signing the nuke deal with us shows that they trust India with nuclear fuel, forget radars and avionics. Also, they know India will be the only country left that can challenge China. Pakistan will keep crying for sometime but Americans have realized that the future lies in the biggest democracy of the world and not an almost failed state that plays a double game under the mask of War on Terror (I think I don't have to be explicit here).
I voted for F-16 IN, uncle sam thinks 4th Gen + AESA = 5th Gen….
Moreover it`s Indian Mentality: "We do not buy stuffs that our neighbour has…We like to go for someting new.."
@ shiv
how much more time u think we can get fix on fighter plane …
I hope we buy something before the technologies become obsolete. Babus and Netas need to work faster now that the cumbersome work of evaluation has been done by IAF.
F-16 : Old tech, and if we're buying it only for the AESA radar, would be a bad deal with no tech-transfer, intrusive monitoring laws the US would force us to comply with etc.
Mig-35: Need to move away from Russian dependence. We're already paying through the nose for Gorshkov, FGFA and supplies for existing aircraft. Plus the Russians apparently force us to ship the entire engine back to the motherland even for minor repairs.
I actually favour combination of FA/18 and Typhoon. The navy can have the Super Hornets, and IAF can go with the Eurofighter. Allows us to firm up our relationship with Europe, and EADS apparently has a great offset plan. Also, by throwing some additional peanuts at USA, we get hands on the only operational AESA radar out there on a proven platform.
In near future Pak will be offered even current version(F-16 blk 70) by means of fighting against terror by US , that will make invaluable in mmrca buy.
Gripen : Good jet ,but Many products are from US , so tot will face some problem.
Mig35 : Nice one , but same tech mig29,mig29k,Su30mki,FGFA . their will no meaning for mmrca .
Typhoon / Rafale : New and good tech , but only main problem is heavy $$ .
F-18 :now india is almost Americanized (ex.,P8I, Hercules,C-17 and may go for Pariot SAM /Javelin/Spartan aircraft). but F-18 is matured AESA radar , can down any chinese /pak aircraft's , it could be main advantage to india & also in on time delivery . but the one problem is no 100% tot, may be upto some level .
The ratios are expected to remain almost on these lines unless pakis wakeup and start voting for F-16.
I would prefer the Rafale, Mig-35 and the SH to enter the next round. But since selecting SH and Mig-35 out because of politics and selecting Mig-35 means we will become a Russian Air force. SH and Rafale are the best bet. If the Americans have not played politics with us and continued to support terrorists as they do, It just don't seem wise to allow our money to be diverted to terror activities. Hence the last one being the Rafale. If the French did not create issues like that of Scorpene and the the deal is completely detailed and to the satisfaction of both parties, it can be the Rafale in IAF service.
There is no necessity of downselect.
1) Beyond two fighters it will be difficult to continue downselect game.
2) It reduces the pressure off of the surviving candidates to implement the positives of downselected planes eg the low price, lack of intrusive agreements etc.
3)MOST IMP: It(downselect method) will be misused by a lobby to eliminate a good possible contender from the race and having cleared it's way, candidate will become totally unresponsive to India's subsequent bargaining. For example: the yank lobby who proposed Scenario 8(Typhoon out)
back to logic:
mrca winner will be replacing MiG-23
And similar
in Australia ,
F-111 was replaced by F-18
so what same in these case. Please thing.
GUYZ COME ON F-16 IS THE WORST AIRCRAFT IN THE LOT…………IT JUST A VINTAGE STUFF IN NEW PACKING……IF THE IAF & THE BABUS IN MOD SERIOUSLY WANTS TO GO FOR A CHEAP AIRCRAFT THEN HOPE THEY GO FOR MIG-35,THAN THE F-16IN.THOUGH I MIG-35 WOULD BE MY LAST BUT ONE OPTION.SO,HOPE EVERY ONE GOT WHAT MY LAST OPTION IS.
MY OPTIONS ARE
1.TYPHOON-FOR ITS 15 HARD POINTS AND THE LATEST TECH OF EUROPEAN GIANTS LIKE GERMANY,UK,ITALY.WHO R MASTERS IN CRAFTING THE AUTOMOBILES……WITH 15 HARD POINTS TYPHOON IS A RIGHT CHOICE FOR AIR SUPERIORITY ROLE.
2.F-18E/F FOR ITS RADAR
3.GRIPEN-IN FOR ITS COST EFFECTIVENESS
4.RAFALE-COZ ITS NOT BEING USED BY ANY ONE OTHER THAN THE FRENCH SO WE CAN MAINTAIN HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF SECRECY AND TOT.AND THE FRENCH R CONSIDERED RELAY ABLE PARTNERS WORLD WIDE(THOUGH COSTLY).
5.MIG-35(NOTHING GREAT TO SAY EXCEPT TRUST VECTOR AND THE FRIENDSHIP.WEAK IN DECEPTION COUNTER MEASURES AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE
6.F-16 I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT COZ PAKISTAN AND CHINA WITH THEIR F-16C/D AND ITS DERIVATIVE BY REVERSE ENGINEERING J-10 & JF-17 KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT THAN EVEN WHAT LOCKHEED MARTIN PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT.
BEWARE INDIA ABOUT THE F-16
THINK THERE IS A LOT OF ACTIVITY FROM THE PAKISTANI SIDE AFTER A LONG TIME………..INDIANS SHOULD START VOTING
SHIV -I REQUEST YOU TO DO THIS SURVEY ON HEADLINES TODAY AND INDIA TODAY WEBSITES.I THINK YOU CAN DO IT USING YOUR INFLUENCE.I AM SERIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE SECURITY OF YOUR BLOG.
HOPE YOU CONSIDER MY REQUEST
I DONT BELIEVE THIS……………THERE ARE AT LEAST 5 VOTES BEING VOTED TO F-16 EVERY 10 MINUTES.I WANT TO KNOW WHO THOSE GREAT NEW FOUND FANS FOR THE F-16 IN INDIA ARE…………COME OUT GUYS.
F-16 is still the best in its class!!!!
My request to the voters:
Please help to eliminate the the Americans F-18 and Swiss Gripen-In by voting against them. The both countries are looking dangerous to our nation. America for politics and Swiss for economy as they are giving safe locker to our corrupted money.
I am happy with F-16s statistics.
No need of Gripen, because We have LCA-Tejas. And No need to buy F-18 because of Radar only. Though we don't have the capability to develop such a radar but, we can do it by the help of Israel.
Just now I received message from my friend working with lokheed martin corporation in India………
They are given a task for the day to vote & keep on voting………
Please believe me.
My Vote stands for F-16 & MIG 35. Gone are the days, when Russians behaved like friends, now they have only 1 objective, sell outdated Tech & discarded designs to India @ very high prices. Americans, they pull the plug during wars.
If not for US tech in Eurofigher Typhoon & Swedish Griffen, I would have loved to see this in IAF Colurs.
Seems we have to be contended with Rafale Fighter. Offcourse French People can never be trusted, they will sell Rafale to India & missile tech to Pakis.
[email protected], and several others: this is a vote for elimination. stop being a doofus.
1) F/16IN =same old wine bt with new bottle,even the orginal manufacturer USA HAS STOPPED accepting it .USA wan to earn as much it can b4 closing her line completely.2nd reason is PAF factor which we can't ingnore,dey would b masters of every nick nd hook of F/16..If we wan to learn more bot dis particular plane den we can ask from israeli airforce or singapore airforce as we did in da past , F/16IN holds no future…
2)Mig35 – lol we already have dis plane in our inventory as MIG 29K .Mig 35 is only an avtaar of mig 29k ,so with TVC engine and AESA radar doesn't sounds a big improvment or is't ? ? If we wan to buy dis den y we need dis mmrca drama ,we just simply could asked from russia. Say BIG NO TO MIG 35 PLZ
3) TYPHOON holds termendous potential so in wining dis contracts .. According to american scientist association it's 2nd best fighter jet ever made after F/22 raptor… If it wins the contract ,den india will be the most beloved nation in EUROPE . A new superb plane without any strings attached is my choice.Nothing comes kloser to dis beast and don't worry about the priceline,dey will make it a sweet deal coz dey want to stay in india .
4)SAAB GRIPEN NG – LOW maintenace nd cheapest of all .ATRUE VALUE FOR MONEY IF WE DON'T BUY IT THEN LETS GET PREPARE TO SEE DIS BIRD IN OTHER SIDE, DA PORKIS AIR FORCE SIDE .They surely want this beautiful bird and sweden never going to raise objection coz SWEDEN MEANS BUISNESS..A must buy for us nd IAF shown its interest too ..My 2nd best choice.
5 )RAFALE- well i have not much 2 say xcept sum fancy stuff like spectra EW and i think rafale is not much intrested in india as compared to BRAZIL OR UAE .Let show who's the boss here.In place we can buy UAE nd OMAN new spanky mirage 2000-9 which dey retured for RAFALE birds . A good choice for stop gap 4 IAF is buy 62 M2K-9 b4 mrca birds arrived. 6)F/A 18 aka bomb truck ,da strongest contender with strong politikal backing ,a combat proven too.
In da end 80 F/18IN + 126 gripen NG will surely win dis contract…
So many people reading this blog and voting in just a few hours…impressive !
The most important vote will be the one of IAF…
Why cant we cancel MMRCA (bcoz of scenario #1) and buy F-35 bcoz it cums at cost of US$89 million less than typhoon and little more than other aircrafts…but giving more money we could get a tactical bomber with stealth features…even if we dont get TOT…
The opposition to F-16 perhaps indicates that Indians do not always suffer from the Stockholm syndrome.
This is a bout for elimination, so no one selects his choice but eliminates the most undesired or the most competitive to his role model.
So Indian peoples lobby eliminates F-16 on Paki donation and many such eternal issues.
American and Paki lobby eliminates Mig35 to reduce the mutual dependence of Russia and India.
Russian lobby eliminates F-18, so that India should not start roaming with America.
European & French lobby eliminates Gripen, so that this tiny aircraft shall not overtake the other European products.
No lobby eliminates the EFT and Rafale, because all know that they can not win otherwise also due to the factors like cost etc.
nop RA!!!!! not every1 alike coz of sum favurite role model here like myself m against F/16IN due to its closing of lines from america itself,am against mig 35 coz we already operating MIG 29K nd MIG 35 is a derivative of it xcept sum fancy items like AESA radar nd TVC engine,did i left anything else m8 ???what is whole process is all about of mmrca stands for den if we r fixed on mig 35 only else we could jus simply asked from russia long back… All we want is a capable ,value for money ,no strings attached,life time supports and reliable partner which comes with either TYPHOON or GRIPEN NG….BOTH HOLDS A GREAT POTENTIAL IN FUTURE WHICH U CANT SIMPLY IGNORE .
"KILL THE CHICKEN TO FRIGHTEN THE MONKEY"!!!!!!!!!!.
F16IN NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED.
INDIA SHOULD LET U.S.A KNOW,THAT IT CANNOT TRAVEL ON TWO BOATS AT TIME.
"KILL THE CHICKEN TO FRIGHTEN THE MONKEY"!!!!!!!!!!.
F16IN NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED.
INDIA SHOULD LET U.S.A KNOW,THAT IT CANNOT TRAVEL ON TWO BOATS AT TIME.
Oh,..:( ,I read the misunderstood the title,I did n't read it actually,and thought it was for which aircraft MUST be selected,I'm so sorry Mig-35…:(
Selecting Super hornet seems the best bet. Even though the U.S had put sanctions against India, I don't think that they will be able to do it again or atleast will not risk another setback with loss of Rupees and loss of good relations with India. The main reason for selecting the Super hornet can be that they will deliver the right product at the right time, not like the Russians and the French who will keep asking more money even after signing the deal. So proper signing of the deal will ensure speedy delivery of a tried and tested platform like the super Hornet into the Indian Air Force within the shortest amount of time.
Excuse me for my ignorance,but which is the aircraft on your logo?
Hey bumhole anon@12:00PM
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
So dont get too worked up over it
I feel it in my fingers
I feel it in my toes
SUPER HORNET is all around me
And so the feeling grows
It's written on the wind
It's everywhere I go, oh yes it is
SUPER HORNET SUPER HORNET
It is quite obvious guys Obama Uncle coming in Nov then they will sign some document for making ToT transfer easier. And then in perhaps December. MOD will declare that Hornet stole Air force Ka DIL.
Since they may be some delay in signing contract owing to opposition from left or may ToT transfer delay in senate, and since according news report french have offered 40-50 Rafale in short time.Indian would also go for some Rafale because of the delay caused in signing contract for SH.
So no need of the poll because Americans have already scored their goals.
Hey Anal anon@5:38PM.. you expect everyone to believe that LM India pay their employees to come here and vote on a blog that the govt wont even consider? Just because you are a Bharat-Ratshak moron, doesn't mean everyone else is.
Are you people even reading the the blog entries? THIS VOTE IS FOR ELIMINATION, NOT INCLUSION.. jeez
I feel sorry for poor Shiv for dealing with these dumbums
confrontation rafale & ef2000
2007 Solenzara Rafale won vs EF2000 8-1 dogfight
December 2009 UAE atlc Rafale won vs EF2000, 7-1, 4v4 4-0, 2v4 3-1 downgraded weapon. rwr & r77 simulation (40km).
EF2000 is good interceptor high altitude, bad air-ground bomber, no carrier version, no combat proved.
Rafale omnirole concept, good air defense, good air-bomber, anti ship, nuke strike, low rcs and hard to lock,carrier version, war electronic, combat proved since 2006.
EF2000 & Rafale complete the one to other, not made for same mission.
@Khatkhatvrrr, sorry but your ignorance can't be ignored. That is a F35.
Remember it was the viper pilots that were drilling the brains out of the su-30 pilots, to a point where the mki pilots preferred not to go 1-1 with them. IAF has lot of respect for the vipers. The super viper on offer will be something special.
Please don't sell out the interests of the nation with euma, cismoa, beca….
I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen celebrating the handcuffs we are about to put in our hands with superbugs with all the treaties. Don't sign up for virtual imperialism.
Kick F-16 Out. You cannot supply weapons to both sides.
Also we should have a agreement with the winner not to supply competetive products to India's neighbors for certain timeframe.
Does anybody here know what role the IAF has in mind for the MMRCA?
All the contenders have their own technical merits,something that each one does better than the rest. So a logical decision can be made only once we know where the MMRCA is going to be slotted in the IAF ORBAT. Is it to excel at counter air or replace our existing air to ground assets. The reason I ask is that we already have an air dominance fighter in the SU-30 MKI and the LCA MK2 is going to build up the numbers sooner than the MMRCA. AESA can't be the only thing as we can upgrade the MKI BARS to IRBIS which though not an AESA still has a hell of a performance. Super-cruise can't be it cause 117s upgrade to the SU-30 will let it super-cruise. And these upgrades are bound to be cheaper than buying 126 new jets and their associated infrastructure overheads. None of these planes can out range or outmaneuver the SU-30. So at the high end we have the SU-30 and the low we have the LCA; where does the MMRCA fit?
Assuming we don't want duplication of capabilities we can rule out the Gripen and the Hornet. The first is too close to the LCA and the second to the SU-30. Out of the remaining four,if we make a choice based on on paper performance(speed,agility,rate of climb)we can say that the Eurofighter and the MIG-35 are likely to fare better. Of the two the Eurofighter would be the better choice as with having excellent air to air credentials it would also bring a more credible air to ground package. On the other hand if range and tonnage are the primary factors we can expect the Rafale to come out on top.
So once again what does the IAF want from the MMRCA? If our much loved defense correspondent could get that answer I for one would be much obliged.
Apart from the thoughts above other deciding factors will be cost,political "benefits" vis a vis the selling country, TOT and corruption (presence or lack of).
So for now your guess is as good as mine. :)_
Hey bumhole anon@12:00PM
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
So dont get too worked up over it
Then what?? This is an exercise to guage public awareness or to know political mindests or to guage effectiveness of PR exercises conducted by verious agencies ?
Not an exercise in futility, you bambhole !!! A bad thing to do.
Hey bumhole anon@12:00PM
This is just a vote for the general public. The PM isnt going to use this to eliminate the aircraft, nor is the IAF going to take into account the results of this vote when they make their decision.
So dont get too worked up over it
Then what?? This is an exercise to guage public awareness or to know political mindests or to guage effectiveness of PR exercises conducted by verious agencies ?
Not an exercise in futility, you bambhole !!! A bad thing to do.
It is so simple chatters !
Which is that aircraft which can bring down F-18 and Mig – 35?
F-18 will find its way to Pakistan and Mig -35 will eventually be found with Chinese.
Look for something which can down those birds.
Please don't sell out the interests of the nation with euma, cismoa, beca….
I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen celebrating the handcuffs we are about to put in our hands with superbugs with all the treaties. Don't sign up for virtual imperialism.
Wait for DRDO solutions to fall down from a tree top and meanwhile get scr**d by Chiangs and Seikhs!
THE MMRCA IS FOR INTERCEPTORS OR THATS THE MAJOR ROLE REQUIREMENT. ONLY ONE WAY OF FINDING WHICH AIR CRAFT IS SUITABLE THAT IS HAVING A MOCK INTERCEPTION OF SU-30MKI LETS SEE HOW EACH AIRCARFT FARES THEN LET THE AIR FORCE DECIDE AS IT WILL BE PRIMARILY USED FOR INTERCEPTING INFILTRATORS, F-16 VS F-16 HOW ABOUT THAT THINK?? NOT GOOD
THE OTHER SERIOUS IMPLICATION FOR F-16 IS THE HIGH RATE OF INVOLVEMENT OF THE TURKS IN THIS PROJECT.WE ALL KNOW ON WHO'S SIDE THE TURKS R…..WE HAVE SEEN IT IN THE AFGHAN CONFERENCE HOW THE TURKS WERE TRYING TO SIDELINE THE INDIAN INFLUENCE IN THE REGION………….COME ON GUYS LETS VOTE FOR THE ELIMINATION OF THE F-16'S…………WE R NOT GONA GIVE A PENNY TO THE TURKS……..!!!
Should be eliminated :
– F-16: for obvious reasons
– Gripen NG: not ready at all, only promises
– Eurofighter: not ready, even more promises, even more expensive, partners are not commited to this aircraft (a real fiasco)
hey anon@6:15 AM
DRDO solutions dont fall from the tree, they come out of the backsides of the people who work there.
Sometimes(by which i mean all the time) it takes time for products to come out of DRDO. Meanwhile we can import and make other countries richer and advance technically. Whats the problem with that?
F-18 is a good bomber, but with it India can not dare to defend or offend against either Pak or China for a long time to come.
As in all such eventualities, Pak will invariably get angry and America will be obliged to appease Pak by donating it with F-22 or equivalent and also sanctioning against India.
So F-18 is a unilateral peace maker. With it we can be attacked, but we can not defend.
About Gripen
Six Gripens have crashed causing only minor injuries; one prototype, one production aircraft and four in service with the Swedish Air Force.
Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAS_39_Gripen
Any of them with true AESA radar with range >= 150 KM in headon mode and 80 Km in tail mode with related BVR air to air missiles matching the technology and range of radar will do. It should be capable enough of carrying BRAHMOS and KH 31A antiship missiles for air to ground/sea role. I donot thing India is buying these for frontline defence but for air dominance and sea denial role.
These along with the aircraft's adaptabilty in all terrains will make it formidable asset for the next 25 years. I the same aircraft's naval version could be available that will be the ideal choice for IAF as it will bringdown the per unit cost and ease down on logistics.
Taking into account the above factors and amongst the available options i feel MIG 35 with Brahmos carrying capability and advanced Russian/Israeli AAMs will make up for a perfect choice provided the Russians come out serious on the AESA front.
Under no circumstances the Russians should be made able to think that this contest is in their pocket. They should be made to come out with the best technologies available on the earth or at the par with it. They should not be selected only on the grounds that they fulfill all the basic requirements of the RFQ but on the merits of quality, superior technologies and off course the justified and competitive prices.
Let us see how they face this challenge.
Well, this is what is called perception.
F-16 is perceived to be enemy aircraft !
But surprised why large rejction for MIG -35 ? May be negetive impact of so many MIG crashes !
Ruskies, better watch out. You are in compitition now. Since you ask for hard cash, Indians will take their pound of flesh.
Better offer something which others are not able to ..
May be Cryogenic technology and designs of top of the world raectors or something like that !
Deal is good.
Even The us President don't want to give jobs to India so why we should buy from their company flights f/16in, f18/sh, and how we can expect they will give full tot they won't consider your (India)benefit they will do for their company and country first so please don't trust American companies here is the latest report that the US president speaks about jobs reference link (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article550001.ece) The line that probably has Indian Ministry of External Affairs officials worried is this: “When I took office… we put forward a new economic plan — a plan that… is focused on making our middle class more secure and our country more competitive in the long run — so that the jobs and industries of the future aren't all going to China and India, but are being created right here in the U.S…” so please think about India and their peoples security, and see which country supports the welfare of India
anon@9:41 PM
even though the US and the west gives us lip service on kashmir and paki terrorism, our stupid babus suck up to them. they will give them whatever they want including purchases of aircraft etc even though they try to prevent jobs from moving to india. you ask why? because in return they give their children visas to come and live in the west. this is how sick our country has become!
Bhai's and Bahenji's
Sardar Manmohan Singh is not allowing us to buy a simple cannon ; do you think he will allow a fighter plane ? How dare we even attempt to defend ouselves ? It is so non secular and anti minorities
I shall however vote for the most secular( for bombing the majority ) and democratic mmrca. Please advise
@superviper have forgot how mig21bisons drilled a thousand holes in f16s butts?does that mean bisons are superior to mki?typical american thinking!!f22 vs su30mki.F22 won.americans clapped hands & jumped like kids saying we beat u!whats da big deal?won using superior weapon(stealth vs no stealth).what happened when ur f16s got hammered/demolished by ww2 era mig21bisons?despite having adv. In tech& generation gap u lose horribly.thats what we indians call a victory.bang bang.hahahaha
Sorry for being offtopic but I said it.hah take that sucker!
"It is so simple chatters! Which aircraft can bring down F-18 and Mig-35? …"
It is not that simple.
To start, most modern aircraft can easily bring down an F-18. It is an agile bomber that the US Navy fills with fuel for patrols. The Mig-29/35 is comparable to the Rafale, Typhoon, lighter Mirage, Bison, Tejas, but all are prey to a F-16, Gripen, JF-17.
India's quick answer to the F-16 and JF-17 is the Su-30, but this must change. If the Tejas isn't redesigned, the F-16 or Gripen must be selected to provide the capabilities, number of aircraft and sortie rate.
Another issue is engine commonality between Medium(2) and Light(1) aircraft, and domestic production. Will a RD-33 fit in a Tejas? Can the Falcon and Su-30 share engines and where is it built? Will Dassault, EADS or GE transfer engine manufacturing to India to also be used in a Tejas? If Volvo supplies engine cores, like they do for the Gripen, could India finaly have a functioning Kaveri and engine development program?
Lastly, should the Tejas be upgraded and Mig-29 replaced, or Tejas replaced and Mig-29 upgraded? IMO; the Tejas was a good manufactuing and design exercise to develope domestic knowledge, but is a dead aircraft. The Mig-29 just needs a make-over until it's eventually replaced by a domestic, 5th-generation aircraft.
@ Shiv Aroor. I want to ask you 1 Question? You have conducted poles but Can we have your preference that Who Should Win the Race for the MMRCA Contract?? I am asking this question because u have looked into many planes and have lot of knowledge. Please input your preference so that we can clarify or doubts.