6thPC: Update on the Rank Pay showdown

It goes to show the attitude of the bureaucrats. The GoM do not apparently want to directly cross swords with them…obviously because the elections are around the corner and they have nothing to lose in person.A good feeling emerges that the Army chief has a good political adviser in the form of a schoolmate…hopefully they are in consultation to find an amicable way around the bureaucracy !!

This is all bunkum..as if the MoD does not know it. Rank pay was Carved out of the Basic Pay as differentiating factor of rank to be added to to the basic pay… There CAT judgements on the subject affirming Rank Pay to be part of Basic Pay..

The basic problem of IAS is that if rank Pay is part of the Basic Pay then Director is equivalllant to Lt Col..a thing not palatable to the trecherious status grabber Babus..for that even if they have to screw 17000 Lt Cols and equivallants of the Services, so be it…

Thank God, the euphoria of the GoM is cooled down and the Services seem to have taken a meduim / long term persepective on demands rather than except things in hurry..

The bureacracy and the Party also has taken path of Politicisation of the forces, through massive political campaign being conducted via Bombay ATS and paid Media where people from Army and IAF have been found and search for the Neval guy is on…People have been declared guilty by ATS-Media combine and Armed forces maligned..

Perhaps this is part of Cryons Contract… and IPS contribution to Political Propaganda…as also Services bashing…

Services, therefore,need not expect any thing from the GoM which otherwise would not have needed this much time to decide on issues….

This is well known “death by the committee” tactics…

excellent expose Mr Shiv; please go ahead. When certain blogs on the issue indulge in self-simulated discussions with misleading titbits, playing havoc with the genuine expectations of the Services, your update is indeed heart warming. Now we can understand the delay in announcement. Please continue with such authentic updates and drive away the chattings of certain self-seeking individual forums. Looking forward to hear more from you

Thank God, here is someone with a reliable and true update. Thanks a lot, Mr Shiv.. Expose their masks and tear them off, you are our only hope

Good Job Shiv! Keep it up.

Dear Shiv
this news was in the knowledge domain by 05 Nov.
why dont u update whether meeting of veteran with GOM as reported to be scheduled on 11 Nov BY YOU HAPPEENED OR NOT
SECONDLY TELL ME JUST BECAUSE sERVICES HAVE NO GLAMOUR LEFT WHY HAVE YOU ALL ALSO SHUNNED US
jUST SACKING OF FRESH TEAINEEby Jet Airways invoked so much of TV attention that decision was revoked within 48 hrs
But inspite of passing of about two months NOTHING FOR POOR ARMED FORCE PERSONNEL

Oh then why Ms Nath is being vindictive to Armed Forces. May the cabinet and God take the correct decision. Awaiting your further report and soon.

Dear Shiv,

Thank you for the update……..Also surprising is to note that all the para mil guys and MNS nurses who were writing comments contrary to the same have now vanished. Waiting for the time of your report……
Thanks once again for the good job being done by you.

Thats old hat.
What we are dying to know is what the Chiefs are doing about it?

SHIV,
I request you to take up thru ur channel/interviews, whether any action /investigation is ordered to look into the fact that how and why such discrepancies/lapses are taking place vis-a-vis py commssn -gp of secys recs/ rec by Sushma Nath?

What fools to think we are soldiers.
Because this PM and Madame see us as their gladiators.
When we fight, they take a cue from the public in applauding us.
When are brothers die (lucky bastards) the high and mighty of this country, are always surprised but marvel at our brothers’ incredible stupidity.
They are needlessly but mortally afraid that their gladiators may break the chains to confront their guily.
They don’t mind throwing scraps and freebies in our cages but don’t even begin to believe you can ask for parity in life as in death.
At least the three, above all gentlemen gladiators, must know we are soldiers!
Or is it our turn to be surprised at incredible stupidity?!
I may surprise myself with such abject cynicism but does this country deserve its Forces? We certainly don’t deserve this humiliation.

SHIV Its a joke but couldnt make me laugh a letter of 2000 being put into action in 2008 where was MOD people ie EXPENDITURE SECY all these years. If her contention is right who is responsible for over payments i e EXPENDITURE which have been made to def forces in all these 8 years and now when thier (HER) nefarious act has been caught she should not resign but be sent to some post on the glacier for six months for isolation training THOUGH WITH ALLOWANCES.

Shiv I dont have enough words to thank you ,you are doing great service to us & TRUTH ,may God bless you & it is not only from me but thousands of us who are just wanting TRUTH to win

Have they leaked the naval chap’s name involved in the malegaon blasts yet?

@ Shiv.
Do you mean she quoted the letter to look like an ass?
Are we missing a beat here?
Doesn’t make sense to me.

It is rumoured that this Sushma Nath had said that the Armed forces would get their dues ' over her dead body'. How can you trust such a woman? & Why are the Chief not speaking to PM directly. If Nath is to be met send some Brig for the meeting. Thats her level.

Why should the Chiefs interact with a 74 batch boor-o-crat. They should have sent a Brig and they should deal directly with Pranab Da. I think Ms Nath should be put under the scanner. Maybe the MI can help

An Anony comment in Navdeeps blog.
File cleared by PMO. PBOR accepted, all other demands rejected.
Can anyone confirm?

I think the country needs some blood of martyrs.Is the Govt so helpless that they cant fire the def secretary or Sushmanath.If they cant lets take them out!

Anon at 8.14, pl dont generalise about women. Shiv pl check gender slurs. I take offence

@anon 1039.
Agreed.
I also agree with 1020. Can’t fire them….

I AM PROUD OS INS TABAR. KEEP IT UP !

While reading some of the posts, one cannot but feel that we are back to the Nehruvian era when Armed forces were required for only ceremonial purposes. It is not so long before that in Punjab we had a situation where no civilian authority entered any villages forfor routine Governance despite all the CPOs and police force. Op Rakshak II saw to it that Punjab is still in India. Mr. Gill was allowed to take all the credit on some pretext which the then Chief and Western Army Commander accepted. This was one single instance which gave the CPOs an aura of success and stature in the country on the Army’s shoulder. The situation is the same in several parts in Eastern India where no Govt exists but in name. The IAS and many others including CPSUs pay regular ransom/taxes. So much for their divine right to rule India. Game plans and pretexts are always hatched at the appropriate Govt Depts against the Armed Forces exploiting the fear of the politician of a coup. Fate of the nation is forgotten. Every third day thhe Govt strengthens the security and intelligence agencies. How? by allotting more and more non auditable funds. Obviously you will find more and more sponsored articles,blogs and such write ups which are down right anti national. After all whose army it is? If the Nation wants such an army ,So be it. WHAT DO THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WANT?(NOT BEAUROCRATS)I only feel sad for the current lot of officers who are ruining their lives doing such thankless jobs. The fault most of the time is with the army’s brass only. Only in India you will find army mobilizing without a national mobilization on beg, borrow or steal principle. OP Parakram is the latest example. IT IS TIME THE CHIEFS SHOWED THE RULE BOOKS MORE OFTEN. As someone said if the National leadership is so confident that their bureaucracy will ensure that there is no future war, kick out the Lt Cols, appoint all IAS, And PMF officers to the borders and reduce the strength of the Army drastically. Dismantle all the installations . There is so much of money to be made in real estate. As it is even at the jawans level the Army gets only the third best recruit, the CPO being found practically more lucrative in several respects. In fact in the corridors of power at Delhi in the eighties there was such talk that between the home and external affairs ministries they will ensure that there is no war in future. This lotus eater’s amnesia was broken only when a Lt Gen in the East took action against a Chinese incursion in force in National Interest. Of course the System punished him by quietly sidelining him. So let the politicians decide what type of Army they want by providing the requisite manpower at their wages. There will only be a question of who will operate the costly equipment. That can also be out sourced. Another avenue for kickbacks!So JAI HIND.

Even the Pakis know that the Madame has been compromised.
Read here: http://dailymailnews.com/200810/31/dmcolumnpage.html
Some excerpts:
As soon as the new alliance was formed, some senior Congress-I leaders with the backing of Italians established a “special operation team” without the knowledge and approval of Indian Prime Minister. Edvige Antonia Albina Maino, better known as Sonia Gandhi, widow of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi, and current president of ruling Congress-Party of India, first introduced one of her closest friend, an Italian mafia boss, Mr. Ottavio Quattrocchi to Rajiv. Ottavio was the principal broker of now infamous Bofors deal (the largest scandal India ever seen – the Bofors scandal). The Bofors deal with the Government of India was signed on March 24, 1986, when Rajiv Gandhi was the Prime Minister.
CBI filed a case against Mr. Quattrocchi, Win Chadha, Rajiv Gandhi, the defence secretary S. K. Bhatnagar and a number of others. Mr. Quattrocchi is the only living key figure of those accused, today. Rajiv made a deal with CBI; he pledged full corporation, including naming all who were involved to save his political career. In return, CBI promised some probation, not criminal record for Rajiv. This deal agitated some very powerful Congress-I party members, and their associates, including Ms. Maino (Sonia) and Mr. Quattrocchi. The same Bofors arms dealers and their cronies with multiple bogus-postbox corporations are handling arms supply to Sri Lankan Government too. Some of the special projects are directly benefiting the top officials of Sri Lankan Government and its National Intelligence top officials.
The Rajiv’s agreement with LTTE and CBI, not only was going to expose all the culprits in the Bofors matter, but also was going to cut all the special project funds – with respect to Sri Lankan conflict. The following people were in trouble:
• Indian top leaders who get a portion of the special project funds – including former heads of RAW
• The Bofors dealers – the Italian mafia and their closest associate in India

SO, HOW CAN THE ARMED FORCES & VETERANS GET THEIR DUES?

Dear Sir,

Mr TR Ramaswami,an Ex banker appears to have comprehended the issues very well.He deserves our compliments.Will any one help me to get his contact details, to congratulate him.Please also see his comments on Shekha Gupta’s article,towards the end of this article.

Regards,

http://www.scribd. com/doc/7402285/ Sixth-Central- Pay-Commission- ARMED-FORCES- PAY-

Sixth Central Pay Commission: ARMED FORCES PAY

FAUJI BHAIYON KO GUSSA KYON AATHA HAI?

[ We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says T.R.Ramaswami ]

In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation. That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows.

This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilitie s and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services. How much differential is there?

Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit – the 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. – ie a differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are ” visible” on the shoulders.

First some general aspects.

Only the armed forces are a real profession – ie where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs, engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence..

But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief – in any army – has risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army. In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation – first and possibly only exception in world military history – General K. Sunderji. Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services.

Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army’s rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion! You can’t fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him. Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries..

Even the meaning of the word “merit” is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list. Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process – each time a batch
is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one. Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.

The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the ‘mode rank’ of his service. ” Mode ” is a statistical term – the value where the maximum number of variables fall. In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel’s gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director.. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance. Further, it takes 16-18 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General. These
aspects and others – like postings in non-family stations – must be addressed while fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank – Colonel General – and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief. If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces’ scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage. Done? Even India ‘s corruption index will go down.

If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created. But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so in the IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals – one is doing Volume I and another Volume II! Further the civil services have such facilities as “compulsory wait” – basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don’t want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled. Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.

Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra’s grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That’s enough proof as to who is really more capable.

Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so.

Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.

Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class – not the bureaucracy – which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments – Finance, Railways, Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways. Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS. Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33
of the Constitution. Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country’s security is concerned. Recall 1962?

Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells (!), should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales.

The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —

COMMENT:

Mr. T.R. Ramaswami, had earlier penned the “Open letter”

to Mr. Shekhar Gupta, Editor-in-Chief, Indian Express on his

“Chain of Command, demand”. Some excerpts from Mr. T.R. Ramaswami’s letter ( posted on 08 OCT 2008):

” I write with reference to the article “Chain of command, demand” by Shekhar Gupta (Ind Exp 4th. Oct 2008). Mr. Gupta has not only castigated the chiefs but also predicted dire consequences for them. Not difficult when your courage can bask in the knowledge that the armed forces cannot respond because of the various Acts. Fortunately
I also don’t have to worry about these laws. Gupta has forgotten important issues and aspects of the whole affair. The present chiefs have less than 18 months to go. In 2010
you will have a brand new trio. If the chiefs were to go by what Gupta has implicitly suggested, three scenarios

emerge. – – – -.”

” – – – . What would “General” Gupta choose? Let us know. With reasons. Yes, the whole affair has been mishandled. But by whom? By the Defence Minister who was probably acting on the advice of his Defence Secretary. So let Antony start by booting his Defence Secretary out . But he can’t . As you have rightly stated a more powerful government and a defence
minister who knows the difference between a human butt and that of a rifle may pounce on the services. But there also has to be an army then. Will we have an army in 5-10 years?”

” – – – . Why is the armed forces pay always in dispute? Because the establishment mafia which includes netas, land owners, owners of assets and media want the country to be
defended as cheaply as possible with the lives of other people’s children. How many of these categories have their progeny in the forces? If MPs can decide their emoluments
and civil servants theirs, why can’t the armed forces do so directly with the political leadership? Why not make the Defence Ministry independent with its own budget like the
Railway Ministry. We the people would contribute what it wants and we will pay only the difference to the Consolidated Fund (or is it Fraud) of India. “

” – – – . Gupta’s article states that it is of national interest. I fully agree. I therefore reserve my right to send my response to the three HQs, the media and such other parties who are interested in national affairs. I am also including Mr. Gupta’s id in this email. The present chiefs may not be Thimayyas or Maneckshaws, but let us see whether Gupta is a Ramnath Goenka, even when we don’t have an emergency. Let’s see whether this article is printed, even in a sanitized form.

Yours faithfully,

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