18 thoughts on “TV REPORT: Indian Navy Exercises Options For 3 More Scorpene Submarines”
Anonymous
Yes, we need more submarines — many more — but they must all be nuclear-powered to secure maximum life-cycle gains and minimize life-cycle costs of ownership and operation.
This is good but ineffective till MDL churns out the first one to the satisfaction of IN. Or, GoI and MoD cooks up a new recipe for putting them out faster without MDL.
If India is cornered into a war with the Paki-Chinki axis India would suffer a very humiliating defeat, worse than the 1962 fiasco as the Indian Armed forces are not yet ready to face a two pronged attack.
In terms of numerical superiority the Chinese alone outnumber us in every field be it the army, air force or the navy. In an all out war, superior quality and technological driven armed force alone cannot defeat another with overwhelming numbers.
India sorely lacks large numbers of fighter aircraft, submarines and sophisticated artillery and other armaments for its army.
While GOI and the MOD baboos dither about everything military and not acquiring any, the Pakis and Chinks are getting ready to reel back India into the past.
It is not enough to shout at being a great superpower in the making if the leaders do not face realities and make the necessary arrangements and the will to face a two pronged war and win it decisively.
India needs not only a defensive mindset but it should be prepared to take the fight to the enemies and make them incapable of war for decades to come.
Why all our def imports the prices r being jacked up beyond the contracted amt? Why are we paying additional 1 billion $ to the French beyond the contracted amount when we should be penalizing them for the delay in ToT and manufacture of the subs? Why are all these defense contracts full of loopholes? How much kickbacks are being paid to our baboos and netas for such loopholes? Instead of giving the French 3 more orders we should have booted them for the scorpene sub fiasco. This is redux of faulty Hawk jets, where 1st we whined for compensation for sub standard eqp, next, instead of taking the Brits to task we gave them fresh order worth billions. HDW kickbacks scam never saw the light of the day. The Con-I party uses such defense deals to earn maximum kickbacks. When we have such "administrators" and "netas" in power who needs China or Pakistan?
As you guys insist on being so defeatist. I have a really stupid idea I want to share with you: lets buy all our weapons from China.
Fill the light fighter requirement with the LCA. The MMRCA with the J-10. Buy Songs for the SSK fleet. I hear the Chinee SSN are noisy so stick to Akulas. Their MLRS are quite nice.
I don't know if the above are any good but at least they will be dirt cheap.
Some of our commentators think like Bhutto i.e. "we will eat grass but we will make the atom bomb". And since then their country is literally doing that, eating grass and investing all resources in saber rattling which has earned them the infamous reputation of "most dangerous country in the world". 100 ssns and 1000 ssks alongwith 1 million 5th Gen fighters when we have the world's largest number of poor people. Biggest threat to India is 80% of the country reeling under insurgencies for which even a 1 million+ army is proving to be too small.
Just wait a few more years! The Indian government has not been able to take care of its people, so China will step in. Of course, we'll really need to pray to God to bless India, because we'll really need His help!! But last I checked, God only helps those who help themselves.
Frankly, you need 100 subs to fight on two fronts + protect the sea lanes. India still doesn't realize that nations will always be at war, and that war isn't going away anywhere anytime soon. India has been paying lip service to defense procurement for the past 35 years, and now it has to sow what it reaped. Goodbye, India! It was nice knowing you!
Really nice description of the state of affairs. Till what time people like you will keep feeding on 100 billion Indians poverty and in the meanwhile get filthy rich yourself. Even if so, the weaker needs more security to defend his freedom and honour than the stronger and rich. Same applies for the nation.
If you have a Naxal crisis in the country, go catch filthy corrupt and rich administrators, politicians and Policewals. You know the numbers of 10 million + of Army but are oblivious of 20 million rag tag policewals eating govt money and plundering the republic.
The job is required to be done by those who are paid for it. You loot the country and Army fights naxals ! Hell of an expectation. Those guys are still doing the job where as policewalas would be VIP escort, in ministries, in Bungalows, in foreign countries, at the airport in AC…
You need to be educated on the irreparable consequences of 1962..
Go get hold of white elephants in the security system.
Why dint you suggest to have a referendum in the Country if India needs more Arms or more policewalas
India does not need a "referendum" for more Arms or Policewalas. Fact is, it needs a referendum for the way this country, which is actually a sub continent, is governed. A country as vast and disparate as India, needs power to be devolved to the states and not centralization of power in New Delhi where people have no clue where our vast country begins or ends and which is leading to massive corruption and favoritism. The British at the time of India's independence wanted stronger states and center to only concentrate on macro issues like foreign relations and defense. This is the only panacea to counter widespread disaffection which is leading to insurgencies and efforts to counter which is in turn eating away our valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere. The Naxal crisis and all that you have mentioned is the result of having missile silos instead of grain silos which is leading to 100,000 tons of food rotting away when people are dying out of starvation and farmers committing suicide. Fyi, my father fought in 1962 war and I know the consequences. Perhaps it's you who is not aware of the 1967 Chola incident. All subsequent border skirmishes China lost heavily. 1962 fiasco was purely due to bad leaders like Nehru. Our soldiers didn't have even proper shoes forget proper rifles (303 lee against AK47). Finally the corruption in Army will even put the policewalas into shame. Ergo time to reengineer (including the armed forces) the way we are governed . Cut down bureaucracy and empower people at the grassroots.
India should really want to project power from the Mediterranean to the East China Sea. It has the latent potential to do so, but no active potential. India should have had a 500-ship modern navy by now. The revolution India has been waiting for hasn't happened. The central government has not taken care of its poor and deprived people. So, just as nature abhors a vacuum, China is coming in to help the poor Indians, starting with Bihar!
So, we can begin to say "Goodbye India! It was nice knowing you!"
Yes, we need more submarines — many more — but they must all be nuclear-powered to secure maximum life-cycle gains and minimize life-cycle costs of ownership and operation.
This is good but ineffective till MDL churns out the first one to the satisfaction of IN. Or, GoI and MoD cooks up a new recipe for putting them out faster without MDL.
– Manne
If India is cornered into a war with the Paki-Chinki axis India would suffer a very humiliating defeat, worse than the 1962 fiasco as the Indian Armed forces are not yet ready to face a two pronged attack.
In terms of numerical superiority the Chinese alone outnumber us in every field be it the army, air force or the navy. In an all out war, superior quality and technological driven armed force alone cannot defeat another with overwhelming numbers.
India sorely lacks large numbers of fighter aircraft, submarines and sophisticated artillery and other armaments for its army.
While GOI and the MOD baboos dither about everything military and not acquiring any, the Pakis and Chinks are getting ready to reel back India into the past.
It is not enough to shout at being a great superpower in the making if the leaders do not face realities and make the necessary arrangements and the will to face a two pronged war and win it decisively.
India needs not only a defensive mindset but it should be prepared to take the fight to the enemies and make them incapable of war for decades to come.
Antony Commissions INS Deepak into Indian Navy
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?709186
Why isn't there any talk of commencing building the second line of SSK's like (say) the Amur/Lada class?
Why all our def imports the prices r being jacked up beyond the contracted amt? Why are we paying additional 1 billion $ to the French beyond the contracted amount when we should be penalizing them for the delay in ToT and manufacture of the subs? Why are all these defense contracts full of loopholes? How much kickbacks are being paid to our baboos and netas for such loopholes? Instead of giving the French 3 more orders we should have booted them for the scorpene sub fiasco. This is redux of faulty Hawk jets, where 1st we whined for compensation for sub standard eqp, next, instead of taking the Brits to task we gave them fresh order worth billions. HDW kickbacks scam never saw the light of the day. The Con-I party uses such defense deals to earn maximum kickbacks. When we have such "administrators" and "netas" in power who needs China or Pakistan?
This guy who is reading the story is complete no brainer.
to the terminator,
absolutely agree….
we need atleast 20-30 Diesel subs
5 SSN
5 SSBN
how many scorpenes are we making now with addition of these 3?
As you guys insist on being so defeatist. I have a really stupid idea I want to share with you: lets buy all our weapons from China.
Fill the light fighter requirement with the LCA. The MMRCA with the J-10. Buy Songs for the SSK fleet. I hear the Chinee SSN are noisy so stick to Akulas. Their MLRS are quite nice.
I don't know if the above are any good but at least they will be dirt cheap.
I told you it was a stupid idea.
I feel we need to have a submarine fleet of 40 SSNs and 40 SSKs with another 10 SSBNs.
Some of our commentators think like Bhutto i.e. "we will eat grass but we will make the atom bomb". And since then their country is literally doing that, eating grass and investing all resources in saber rattling which has earned them the infamous reputation of "most dangerous country in the world". 100 ssns and 1000 ssks alongwith 1 million 5th Gen fighters when we have the world's largest number of poor people. Biggest threat to India is 80% of the country reeling under insurgencies for which even a 1 million+ army is proving to be too small.
Just wait a few more years! The Indian government has not been able to take care of its people, so China will step in. Of course, we'll really need to pray to God to bless India, because we'll really need His help!! But last I checked, God only helps those who help themselves.
Frankly, you need 100 subs to fight on two fronts + protect the sea lanes. India still doesn't realize that nations will always be at war, and that war isn't going away anywhere anytime soon. India has been paying lip service to defense procurement for the past 35 years, and now it has to sow what it reaped. Goodbye, India! It was nice knowing you!
Annon 1.05 PM
Really nice description of the state of affairs. Till what time people like you will keep feeding on 100 billion Indians poverty and in the meanwhile get filthy rich yourself. Even if so, the weaker needs more security to defend his freedom and honour than the stronger and rich. Same applies for the nation.
If you have a Naxal crisis in the country, go catch filthy corrupt and rich administrators, politicians and Policewals. You know the numbers of 10 million + of Army but are oblivious of 20 million rag tag policewals eating govt money and plundering the republic.
The job is required to be done by those who are paid for it. You loot the country and Army fights naxals ! Hell of an expectation. Those guys are still doing the job where as policewalas would be VIP escort, in ministries, in Bungalows, in foreign countries, at the airport in AC…
You need to be educated on the irreparable consequences of 1962..
Go get hold of white elephants in the security system.
Why dint you suggest to have a referendum in the Country if India needs more Arms or more policewalas
Anon 1.05 PM
India does not need a "referendum" for more Arms or Policewalas. Fact is, it needs a referendum for the way this country, which is actually a sub continent, is governed. A country as vast and disparate as India, needs power to be devolved to the states and not centralization of power in New Delhi where people have no clue where our vast country begins or ends and which is leading to massive corruption and favoritism. The British at the time of India's independence wanted stronger states and center to only concentrate on macro issues like foreign relations and defense. This is the only panacea to counter widespread disaffection which is leading to insurgencies and efforts to counter which is in turn eating away our valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.
The Naxal crisis and all that you have mentioned is the result of having missile silos instead of grain silos which is leading to 100,000 tons of food rotting away when people are dying out of starvation and farmers committing suicide.
Fyi, my father fought in 1962 war and I know the consequences. Perhaps it's you who is not aware of the 1967 Chola incident. All subsequent border skirmishes China lost heavily. 1962 fiasco was purely due to bad leaders like Nehru. Our soldiers didn't have even proper shoes forget proper rifles (303 lee against AK47).
Finally the corruption in Army will even put the policewalas into shame. Ergo time to reengineer (including the armed forces) the way we are governed . Cut down bureaucracy and empower people at the grassroots.
India should really want to project power from the Mediterranean to the East China Sea. It has the latent potential to do so, but no active potential. India should have had a 500-ship modern navy by now. The revolution India has been waiting for hasn't happened. The central government has not taken care of its poor and deprived people. So, just as nature abhors a vacuum, China is coming in to help the poor Indians, starting with Bihar!
So, we can begin to say "Goodbye India! It was nice knowing you!"
India is building more SSBNs as well. One of my friend is with ATV project. He told me that 2+ are under construction.