In a thumping sign that “relations between India and Russia [have] soured in recent years”, it has come to light that Russia abruptly cancelled an INDRA-series naval exercise with India last month and has now cancelled an INDRA-series army exercise scheduled for June, reports India Today magazine senior editor Sandeep Unnithan. The Russians apparently notified the Indian contingent of its decision on the naval exercise inappropriately late — well, after the five participating Indian warships (including five destroyers) steamed into Vladivostok.
Read the full report here. Hardcore.
[UPDATE @ 12.54PM / MAY 30] The Indian Navy has sent an official report on Russia’s snub, to India’s Foreign Ministry. An MoD officer said the Navy was furious about the way the Russians pulled from the INDRA exercise. A senior source indicated that even the face-saving table-top exercise, referred to in the India Today piece didn’t actually happen.
Photo by Naresh Kumar / MoD Photo Division [From the last INDRA exercise in Oct 2010]
So sad….
They are pure vendors. We should also act carefully. Russians are selling the same war-machines to China, Pakistan.
India should walk carefully
they are not USSR but RUSSIA
changes are always difficult to digest,india is their biggest defense market and they cannot carry their anguish for much longer,if they have got the Goods we have th cash.wase bhi in todays world nothing matters much more than money.
Strategic partenership is for namesake only after the collapse of ussr.its good we have raised our voice and definately should continue in this manner
We are no longer dealing with the old Soviet Union, we are dealing with the new Russia. This Russia has no loyalties. Cut our losses and bail immediately. The only option is self reliance. Look at how fast China has grown its arms industry! We speed up private public partneship in our defence industry and do WHATEVER IT TAKES to achieve dominating self reliance in critical defence technologies. Enough of depending on lethargic PSUs ridden with red tape and false promises.
Russia showing its real face
This is a signal that we can no longer rely on Russia. Their behavior since breakup of USSR have been anything but warm. Particularly the way they have ripped off India in Groshkov deal. Groshkov is basically an old mothballed missile cruiser cum helicopter carrier which they have managed to sell us at exorbitant price. India should have simply walked away from that deal. Our bowing down to their atrocious demands have emboldened them to treat us like dirt.
We need to strengthen our ties with France. They are the ones who can comfortably fit in the areas where we have been taking assistance from the Russians. We must split the MMRCA contract between Rafale and EF. If the French are will to help us in developing cryogenic engines, nuke subs and other rocket/missile systems, we must partner with them. We have been putting our eggs in one basket for far too long. This means that we won't be getting the Akula. We must ask the Russians to refund the money we paid for construction and lease of this sub.
We must also seriously reconsider our partnership with them for the Pakfa. I doubt it has any stealth capabilities. The Chinese J20 seems far more capable. Let us send them the message that it takes two to tango. They can't take us for granted. Those propagating self reliance are advocating our good old days of socialism, low quality and Hindu rate of growth. We need alliances with capable and reliable partners. It was a big mistake to spurn USA's friendship gestures. USA and India's economy and interests are increasingly becoming common and intertwined.Our babus and netas need to wake up from their eternal slumber and take note of this serious development.
India should seriously consider joining the F35 programme. Russians can't be relied and their products are basically what they developed during Soviet era. Even the Pakfa is something that they had been developing right before collapse of USSR. Russians are still harboring cold war era mindset. They have yet to accept the new world order and changed circumstances.
We must replace AkA with someone more capable. He may be clean, but he is simply not cut out for this job of a defense minister. We need capable leaders. The current crop of Congress leaders due not inspire confidence or respect. Defense ministry must be headed by someone with military background. Such incidents can only happen when your leadership and diplomacy is weak.
India must summon the Russian diplomat and seek his explanation after all sending 5 ships to Russia and then turning them back on the pretext of there are "no ships for exercise" is no joke. Our Defense Minister and PM are seen as wimps. This is the time for them to display some leadership qualities.
fuk Russia , we need to do more joint exercise with france , britain , germany & israel . 80 % of the russian army equipment is outdated & their army is no good anymore & after the great USSR(respect) current Russia is nothing but a criminal state ruled by bunch mafias . We dont need to buy their shitty cheap equipment . Today France & Israel is the 2 real friend India got .
Thanks Russia…you may just succeeded in getting Indian Private-Public cooperation in the defence sector to lift off. Its about time , we need to go for EFT which will help our domestic industry.
How does Russia treat its former vassal states that formed the USSR, like Ukraine and Poland ?? How does Russian deal with Europe especially in energy trade?? Their behaviour in these relationships indicate the thinking in Kremlin.
India should discard the notion of having a 'buddy' like relationship with any country, now that India aspires to be a super power. If any country hopes to be a real super-power, then it has to be self-reliant and self-sufficient in all areas of development, including society, technology, military and space capability, health, and of course food. This is reality.
Welcome to the big league, where its every dog for itself!
Russia by these actions is showing great and in-excusable disrespect toward India, which is a serious matter. The GOI has to seriously re-think and draft a new policy for dealing with Russia as it is today. The old relation is history. India should re-commit itself vigorously toward self-reliance as she prepares to step on to the World stage where she will not find well-wishers but only ruthless competitors. Jai Hind
while there is no need for panic button, as the reaction might be to the sequencial snubs India gave them in the form of MMRCA rejection, delegation level attack, open tender for spares etc. but there needs to be cautious reactions. Russians are not as professional as the west and emotional response indeed could be real too.
Russia is no USSR, we need to keep the relation going as both benefit from the relations. It is very natural that when one partner weakens other will consolidate more powers, and India just did that.
No need to worry if china will get benefitted by Russia, as for Russia, China is a threat unlike India which is just an unpredictable partner.
We have to have an open, a typical Indian (understanding emotions is our strength) discussion with the Russians. We need not look everything through the spectrum of commerce. Not saying we show loyalty for ever, but misunderstandings could be certainly ironed out.
It is high time India realizes that Russia is a new capitalistic entity unlike the USSR of bygone days.We shower praises on Russia for agreeing to sell us aircraft carriers, submarines and tanks but still do not realize that most of the items sold are not top notch, cutting edge technology. Even those sold with socalled TOT are languishing because of unavailablity of parts or poor quality.
We are not a poodle country like the Porkis. We are a soverign nation and as such should do everything that is in our favour. Those cry-babies who throw temper tantrums should only be given a lollypop now and then to appease them. We should not throw billions of dollars in any of their defence industries just to prop them up.
The 5th generation FGFA deal is one which is fraught with uncertainty, slippages, cost overruns, arm-twisting and outright greed. GOI and MOD should have the guts to put their foot down and even threaten to take their business to other friendly nations.
Just don't give in bullies and modern day mafia businessmen.
Damn look at the differences in uniforms……look at what the Indian soldier lacks…..when are we going to get it right?
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India wants to build relations with no one however India must realize its present strength lies with its past relations with Russia and are not yet strong to venture alone in any sphere
The breaking of long standing friendship between India and Russia will be very advantageous to India especially towards achieving more self reliance and options to buy more american/ european military hardware.
Nice thing that they have made the first move.
Perhaps this will get it through to some Indians and Pakistanis, nations have no friends, only interests. When there is talk of friendship it is only a temporary similarity in interests and needs.
No two nations will ever have the same needs and interests, their will always be clashes. That is the point in foreign policy and treaties.
Cut Throttle — Russia!
I've been saying for years that Russia is a no-good partner. India had better get over its colonialist mind-set now, at least, and learn to embrace the West at last. India's salvation is in partnering with the West in all things — commerce, trade, education, and military.
From now we should be carefull becaz Russians have welcomed Paki pm and offered weapons and now this snub
If any of you people believe this supposed "snub" is nothing more then sensationalist nonsense covering up a complex relationship, then you are either stupid or naive.
Let them partner with Pakistan and China. China has duped them several times by purchasing few defense eqps and then reverse engg and mass producing that same product under a different Chinese name. J11 best example. These same jets or their clones will be sold to 3rd countries at a fraction of cost of original eqp. As far as Pakistan is concerned, it has no money. It is a country propped up by aid from USA and Arabian countries. It also sponsors and supports Islamic terrorists all over the world including Chechnya. So let Russia feed milk to the snake at the cost of it's own peril as USA has found out. 9/11 perpetrator was a Pakistani (Khalid Mohammad), Osama just gave his blessings to this project.
Whereas India respects business contracts and violation of patent and copyrights are taken as serious breach of law. India is also one of the emerging economic and military superpowers which is being wooed by almost all the major powers. Russia looking at India thru it's Soviet era lenses will only harm it's own interests. It still hankers for the good old cold war days when it used to be one of the two superpowers. If it is trying to resurrect the old order by tying up with leftist countries like Venezuela, Cuba and China. Today China's emerging superpower status is solely due to it's huge trade surplus with western countries. The rise of China is purely due to cheap labor who are treated little better than slaves. It is not due to innovation and healthy internal market. If the THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK thru sanctions due to "human rights abuses in China", then all this prosperity will evaporate within few months.
It is a snub and an aggresive snub!:) 5 warships now probably on their way back.
We can't get belligerent, they have our INS TEG, Vikramadit… akula leases etc etc. So we need to be diplomatic but let them know tantrums such as these do not help the partnetship. Maybe PAKFA could be the last thing we ever work on.
Go on then ruskies, partner with the Pakis they are a fun bunch or so we hear(NOT). NATO and the US seals can fill you in on the details.
The USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship. Russia is a democracy.
Why is it that the comments here seem to prefer the totalitarian dictatorship?
India has little to no indigenous capability to build anything and have always depended on phoren arms imports. You have merely switched from one supplier to another supplier. I guarantee you that no one, not even the French will help you develop your own arms design and manufacturing capability. Any tech that they offer will be obsolete. At best, HAL will get some assembly work and then call it "indigenous". Such is the fate of all Indian "indigenization" efforts.
Anon 7.21PM,
Long ago the Germans gave us carbon composite tech for our space project. Today we have mastered this area so well that our "indigenous jet" Tejas's airframe is almost completely carbon composite. Tejas maybe the only jet in the world which has almost 100% composite airframe.Today this technology is barred for exports as it has dual applications. China till date does not have this technology.
The next area is that of remote sensing. We have mastered this technology and today we are earning billions by exporting remote sensing data.
Indians have the brains and that's why India is fast turning out to be the hub for global R&D. Ask GE, IBM, Accenture or EADS, Boeing who want to partner with ISRO.
We don't have a military industrial complex and this is the biggest barrier to our gaining self reliance in the area of defense. And the biggest impediments to developing a robust military industrial complex is our corruption, moribund socialist policies and nexus between extremely corrupt big business houses and our politicians who stymie any competition or entrant of new players. In other words the Govt of India is the biggest stumbling block to India realizing it's potential unlike China where the leadership is the reason why China has achieved such stellar heights in such short time.
If Russia refuses to lease Akula then we must refuse to purchase Groshkov and demand refund of our investments in these two boats. Without Akula it makes no sense to spend such huge money on an old accident prone dilapidated helicopter carrier masquerading as an aircraft carrier. Our own aircraft carrier is far more potent and half the cost of Groshkov. It's time Russia stopped taking us for granted.
Anon 7.21 PM,
USSR was a superpower in the real sense. Today Russia is a land of mafias, oligarchs, beggars and prostitutes. USSR was million times better than today's Russia.
Have the russian's heard about what is means with "Diggging ones own Grave" ?
Post cold war politics seems to have turned much more complex than the cold war politics.
However on the face value it can be said that now the Russians need the training from the Indians.
This news hardly registered on Russian press so I do not believe it to be a deliberate snub to India.
People are being a little sensitive, if anything it is more an indicator of Russian military reform than a indicator of Russian-Indian relations.
Relations with Russia have been on a decline since the past few years. I guess India has realized it has better value in fostering partnerships with USA, and Europe. Its a buyers market. We have a long shopping list and we have the right to bargain in the market for the best deal.
It is sad but unfortunately it looks like Russia is heading downhill. As the USSR, it was a great nation, a military power whose citizens were disciplined and highly patriotic. Today, Russia can't go back to the past even though the leadership is severly nostalgic about it and they can't compete with the West either. The Russian leadership is still stuck in the cold war mentality. The Chinese leadership has shown great vision and character. The Indian leadership is nowhere to be found. We Indians have the right stuff, but tragically, after Independence we have never had the right leaders.
As Anon@8:23 said, its about the leadership, stupid. Nuff said.