32 thoughts on “PHOTOS: LCA Tejas PV-2 Makes An Appearance At LCH Inaugural”
Anonymous
Butt ugly is all I can say ! Are the machining skills of HAL straight out of WW – II ? Even the Russians have better finish on their airframes. I was shocked to see some of the ugly riveting on the LCH too. HAL needs to be privatized !
and remember forgotten hero of defence R&D in India.Come across when viewing DRDO article template.AND tank ex weighs 47 tons same as t-90which weighs 46.5 .why order tank ex instead of tinkin.
It always makes me sad when i see the design of LCA it's useless praising the HAL for developing this junk just for national pride.This junk looks like a 3rd generation jet. Hal seriously needs to be either privatized or administration must be privatized. They need better process and the government must remove the quota system and should get the best brain in defense research and must pay handsomely to attract the best brains in the country.
Agree with the first anonymous poster. A second look at the three photos makes it look like the metal has been hammered into shape by some street job. And this is the cutting edge ?
I have been watching this bird fly over bangalore for the last 3 years and have never seen it do a 180 degree turn as effectively as JF-17 or J-10 can do. All the test pilot does mostly is fly inverted. Personally, I believe its a crap air-frame and cant even compare to a Mig 21 in speed and maneuverability (How even the Gripen manages to do with the same GE 404 engine inspite of being heavier) . IAF should cancel its order and ask for a better design, in its current configuration LCA is only crap-worthy.
I agree, Really ugly work. Seems like Delhi made electronics and in competition with Chineese electronics. HAL needs to be professional when it comes about design.
The only hope for our pilots flying this plane against a JF17 or J10 will be to have advanced avionics and BVR capability plus a hope that the pakistanis dont have either. In a dog fight scenario, this bird is sure to get toasted.
@Amit, This is all what you get when you reservation everywhere in this country, soon you will even see that post of pilots is in Reservation, why don't we do some reservation in Amry. That will solve problem of Naxlism also.
If HAL is trying to win over any hearts by parading the LCA , they need to go back to the drawing board and send their designers to go through a few years of hands on training in industrial design. I agree that a Combat aircraft is not built to win beauty contests but to kill the enemy – however they need to be airworthy enough to do the latter. The LCA unfortunately is neither. I have been branded in a seperate thread as being an "LCA Hater". Look guys, I am just going to say what I see. My son or for that matter yours should not be put in a position to risk their lives fighting for our country in an airplane that is ( and forgive me for my harsh words here ) a la "Flying Coffin Mark II " . The LCA cheer leading squad seems to ignore that being able to fly is a given for any aircraft design , however a combat aircraft needs to do more – ability to make the kill and survivability. I don't see the LCA being able to do either. I have said this again – while this may have been a technology demonstrator that HAL and ADA leveraged to train their teeth on but I will pass for now. We have some growing up to do here.
This is an Aircraft not a Fashion Show model Judge it on its performance not on looks
@ People who compare it with JF 17/J 10
Well have u seen those coffins fly in your life, both of the aircrafts are shameless copies of ditched Israeli or Russian design….man are u Indians or not, U must be weapon agent for some western coffin manufacturers
Wow we have some real experts here who by just looking at an airframe can tell us what its capabilities are. How about applying to fly for the IAF or for a job at HAL? Or maybe you keyboard commandos who are too chicken to even reveal your identities are simply unlettered boors?
For all LCA fanboys, just look at the way HAL designed the LCH, atleast some intelligence and mission worthiness has gone into it. However, LCA design is way old. I hope i m proved wrong, but I dont think this airframe will become a successful platform.
Why is it that indian's question their fellows nationality as soon as they question anything? Is this to do with the rigid caste system?
LCA is a good looking machine, OK indians probably haven't invested in the latest manufacturing technologies as they are spending all the money on buying anything and everything from everyone else. Its not the fault of DRDO/HAL.
What is concerning is that LCA is not pushing the envelope. Is this due to lack of confidence in the FBW or the frame?
Yeah right the abuse keeps getting better and better – from "LCA Bashers" to "agents of Western defense equipment manufacturers" – for calling the LCA what it is. I am anything but a keyboard commando – a engineering education from IIT in Industrial Engineering and masters in Robotics from Carnegie Melon probably deserves a wee bit more credit than that. I am not Swadeshi bigot but I am a patriotic Indian. I care about the people that will fly these machines more than you do about your job at HAL or DRDO ! It's about giving our fighters the tools and equipment they need to overpower the enemy and about their survivability. The LCA should be canned – time out !
And lastly …how about revealing your identity for one …before you submit another of your ludicrous posts again.
To all questioning lca capability 1.LCA uses Hybrid version of the EL/M-2032 radar:-detection and tracking range of up to 150 km in air-to-air mode, the air-to-ground mode generates high resolution radar imagery of locations at up to 150 km, and air-to-sea mode can detect and classify naval targets at ranges of up to 300 km. 2. Jf-17 uses NRIET KLJ-7 radar:-range of ?105 km in look-up mode and ?85 km in look-down mode. 3.J-10 uses PD fire-control radar :- search distance 52~148km, track 4-8 targets simutaneously. LCA is the winner.
The JF-17/ J10 maybe are copies but when they are firing an SD-10A/ AMAARM/ 5th gen IR WRM at you, will you stop and shout 'you are a copy, you can't blow me up'…:-) comeon dude get real! Paks have been putting their F-16s in DACT with JF-17, guess which one comes out top? Oh just before i finish, chinese are currently testing WS-15A engine with TVC for the JF-17. Guess what that will do to the copy? Do you think it matters if its a copy or not? IAF simply needs a good reliable plane.
How old are you dude? SEEN JF-17 firing missiles, dropping bombs!!!! Doubting PAF/PLAAF, is cluthing at straws. Don't mislead yourself, reverse the situation: JF-17 in indian hands and LCA with Pakistan. You would be laughing at the incompetence of the PAks…right!
Btw boys JF-17 will have as standard the KLJ-10 radar. Question is where will the LCA be?
Radar range is not means to an end…remember in the red flag the Bison was more of a threat to the F-16/F15s than the much vaunted Su-30mki.
Probably the pilots don't do those manoeuvres in that part of the sky under which your place is located.
You have no idea what the LCA is. You need to read up some materials before u start commenting upon the LCA air frame, avionics etc. Little knowledge is very dangerous.
@ Subho,
With all your IIT degree what have you really done for the Indian aerospace industry. If you are really that great, why don't you help instead of complaining in forums like these. Do you have any idea about the kind of hard work that has gone into making this plane. Inspite of all the sanctions, inspite of a crawling industrial base, the scientists and engineers at ADA has done a splendid job. The LCA has given us the experience of building a true 4th generation fighter plane.
I am sure the engineers at ADA (even if they don't have an IIT degree,….. in fact I did find some IITians there ) are a thousand times more productive than you have ever been in your entire life.
I don't think the indian air force gave IOC just by the looks but actual testing right!so its so foolish of us to comment just by seeing a few rivets and criticize the performance of the aircraft.
If JF17 is such a capable fighter then, why is a country like Peru having 2nd thoughts in buying that bird?
Saudi Arabia dropped the India of purchasing JF17. Why? Why didn't they go ahead? Tell me any decent country which is interested in JF17?
I do agree Tejas is far from perfect. But being the 1st 100% Indian AC, I will say it's a superb AC. Idea behind building Tejas is to acquire capabilities to build state of the art weapons system. Even evolved ACs like Mig 29, Typhoon, F18s, F15s are still facing glitches.
I don't think there is any reservation in ISRO, DRDO or IA for that matter.
I belong to the general category and I have worked in a very large PSU. The SC, ST, OBC candidates are as good as general candidates. Some of them are even better than general candidates. We mustn't stereotype anyone on the basis of race, caste etc. It is due to our typical racist mentality we are unable to integrate with one another or end up getting bashed in foreign countries.
@ Anonymous said… If JF17 is such a capable fighter then, why is a country like Peru having 2nd thoughts in buying that bird?
GOOD ONE thats what the LCA is about GOOD Analysis and post ADA has come up with openings for Engineers and Scientist I would like all my INDIAN friends with good knowledge of Aeroengneering to apply and then help build the LCA
“With all your IIT degree what have you really done for the Indian aerospace industry. If you are really that great, why don't you help instead of complaining in forums like these.”
What kind off criticism is that????
I didn’t like Kites so should i make a movie? I don’t like Vanilla ice cream or Gen Kayani. I am also not a fan of Hafiz Saed or Ahmedinajad?
You see where I am going with this line of thought! There are a billion things that are wrong with this world (in my opinion) so should I not voice concern about them? I however cannot change those billion things but I can and should voice my opinion on them and some of it would be construed upon as criticism.
Why someone has decided to become a scientist at DRDO or someone else decided to go to US is not for questioning here.
@ Subho
Subho, could you please explain why you think LCA is not good enough?
I do not HATE/LIKE the LCA, in other words I am NEUTRAL. It would be better for all of us I feel if you could explain why LCA is inferior to JF 17/10. Don’t compare LCA against 39, 16, 18 Euro etc. I understand that Pakistan can buy any 4+ or 4++ fighters (if it can afford them) but comparing LCA against the MMRCA birds would not be fair. Also do keep in mind that LCA is still evolving so I would really appreciate if you could keep the product road map in mind while penning your thoughts.
Please do not provide links or ask me to do the comparisons myself. My question is to you. Links for further reading is fine but do provide the gist of the write up from those links.
I am no robotics grad from Mellon but I do have an impressionable mind and am no fool either (in other words I have a masters degree from a top uni in the west as well)
I do hope that you write about this as it will give others a chance to understand your POV without calling you names.
OK so u have an MS from cranigie Melton. so what? the GM of Hal'S RAR&DC is an MS FROM MIT, he was an IITian too (heck even i am and i work for the same div(IIT kanpur aerospace 2008) ) so what differnce do u think an IIT degree will make to an aerospace industry which was plagued by sanctions and many more unseen factors, i agree there is some problem regarding the workmen and culture but u have them everywhere in India and ranting about a Hi-Tech A/C doesn't solve the problem (specially when u are just a production engg grad)u would do better to design some CNCs (If u can ie;) The LCA is just as good(if not better)as its counterparts (read JAS-39) and it was proved with the recent MMRCA trials and when it gets its IOC u will all be entertained(AI 2011) for sure but let me remind u, the fancy cobra and the kulbit are just for the airshows and nothing more, when u are in combat, all that matters is your EW and the RADAR which the LCA has and is better than what the chinks and porks have I am posting anonymous since my company doesn't appreciate replying to uninformed people like you, so enjoy your ignorance and please don't mention IIT as something out of this world, there are many more who have passed out before you and many after u and who have done/are doing better than you
Well said ananymous that no decent country is intrested in JF17.. Actully pakistan is just buyin dis junk plane coz 1. Pakis cant rely on american tecnlogy coz americans can anytime issue sanctions 2. Cant access russian technology. 3. Europian technology is way to costly for poor country lik pakistan to afford So that leaves pakistan to buy scrap from china and plus dey can boast that they hav build dat plane
I WISH THE EJ2000 GETS SELECTED FOR THE ENGINE COMPETETION HAS A LOT OF BENEFITS OVER 414 AS IT COMES WITH FULL TOT AND LESS SANCTIONS ALSO IS THRUST VECTORING I KNOW THAT F414 IS GETTING DEVELOPED FURTHER BUT THE LCA REQUIREMENT IS IMMEADIATE THE EJ2000 IS SAID TO BE DEVELOPED ATLEAST THAT WHAT I HEAR I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING IT IS NOT POINTED TO ANYONE THOUGH
(IF I KNOW THE CONDITION OF MY TEETH I KNOW WHAT I CAN CHEW)
Butt ugly is all I can say ! Are the machining skills of HAL straight out of WW – II ? Even the Russians have better finish on their airframes. I was shocked to see some of the ugly riveting on the LCH too. HAL needs to be privatized !
What are the spefications of this one.
you sir are imagining things. I don't see anything wrong.
Today we need people like Ranjit Lal Jetley .please read this article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranjit_Lal_Jetley
and remember forgotten hero of defence R&D in India.Come across when viewing DRDO article template.AND tank ex weighs 47 tons same as t-90which weighs 46.5 .why order tank ex instead of tinkin.
I like this plane, its a beautiful little bird.
It always makes me sad when i see the design of LCA it's useless praising the HAL for developing this junk just for national pride.This junk looks like a 3rd generation jet.
Hal seriously needs to be either privatized or administration must be privatized. They need better process and the government must remove the quota system and should get the best brain in defense research and must pay handsomely to attract the best brains in the country.
Agree with the first anonymous poster. A second look at the three photos makes it look like the metal has been hammered into shape by some street job. And this is the cutting edge ?
Butt ugly……I never knew HAL is making LCA Tejas PV-2 for fashion show? When are they going to walk on ramp?
I have been watching this bird fly over bangalore for the last 3 years and have never seen it do a 180 degree turn as effectively as JF-17 or J-10 can do. All the test pilot does mostly is fly inverted. Personally, I believe its a crap air-frame and cant even compare to a Mig 21 in speed and maneuverability (How even the Gripen manages to do with the same GE 404 engine inspite of being heavier) . IAF should cancel its order and ask for a better design, in its current configuration LCA is only crap-worthy.
I agree,
Really ugly work. Seems like Delhi made electronics and in competition with Chineese electronics. HAL needs to be professional when it comes about design.
The only hope for our pilots flying this plane against a JF17 or J10 will be to have advanced avionics and BVR capability plus a hope that the pakistanis dont have either. In a dog fight scenario, this bird is sure to get toasted.
@Amit,
This is all what you get when you reservation everywhere in this country, soon you will even see that post of pilots is in Reservation, why don't we do some reservation in Amry. That will solve problem of Naxlism also.
If HAL is trying to win over any hearts by parading the LCA , they need to go back to the drawing board and send their designers to go through a few years of hands on training in industrial design. I agree that a Combat aircraft is not built to win beauty contests but to kill the enemy – however they need to be airworthy enough to do the latter. The LCA unfortunately is neither. I have been branded in a seperate thread as being an "LCA Hater". Look guys, I am just going to say what I see. My son or for that matter yours should not be put in a position to risk their lives fighting for our country in an airplane that is ( and forgive me for my harsh words here ) a la
"Flying Coffin Mark II " .
The LCA cheer leading squad seems to ignore that being able to fly is a given for any aircraft design , however a combat aircraft needs to do more – ability to make the kill and survivability. I don't see the LCA being able to do either. I have said this again – while this may have been a technology demonstrator that HAL and ADA leveraged to train their teeth on but I will pass for now.
We have some growing up to do here.
@ All Critics
This is an Aircraft not a Fashion Show model Judge it on its performance not on looks
@ People who compare it with JF 17/J 10
Well have u seen those coffins fly in your life, both of the aircrafts are shameless copies of ditched Israeli or Russian design….man are u Indians or not, U must be weapon agent for some western coffin manufacturers
Wow we have some real experts here who by just looking at an airframe can tell us what its capabilities are. How about applying to fly for the IAF or for a job at HAL? Or maybe you keyboard commandos who are too chicken to even reveal your identities are simply unlettered boors?
For all LCA fanboys, just look at the way HAL designed the LCH, atleast some intelligence and mission worthiness has gone into it. However, LCA design is way old. I hope i m proved wrong, but I dont think this airframe will become a successful platform.
Why is it that indian's question their fellows nationality as soon as they question anything? Is this to do with the rigid caste system?
LCA is a good looking machine, OK indians probably haven't invested in the latest manufacturing technologies as they are spending all the money on buying anything and everything from everyone else. Its not the fault of DRDO/HAL.
What is concerning is that LCA is not pushing the envelope. Is this due to lack of confidence in the FBW or the frame?
Yeah right the abuse keeps getting better and better – from "LCA Bashers" to "agents of Western defense equipment manufacturers" – for calling the LCA what it is. I am anything but a keyboard commando – a engineering education from IIT in Industrial Engineering and masters in Robotics from Carnegie Melon probably deserves a wee bit more credit than that. I am not Swadeshi bigot but I am a patriotic Indian. I care about the people that will fly these machines more than you do about your job at HAL or DRDO ! It's about giving our fighters the tools and equipment they need to overpower the enemy and about their survivability. The LCA should be canned – time out !
And lastly …how about revealing your identity for one …before you submit another of your ludicrous posts again.
To all questioning lca capability
1.LCA uses Hybrid version of the EL/M-2032 radar:-detection and tracking range of up to 150 km in air-to-air mode, the air-to-ground mode generates high resolution radar imagery of locations at up to 150 km, and air-to-sea mode can detect and classify naval targets at ranges of up to 300 km.
2. Jf-17 uses NRIET KLJ-7 radar:-range of ?105 km in look-up mode and ?85 km in look-down mode.
3.J-10 uses PD fire-control radar :- search distance 52~148km, track 4-8 targets simutaneously.
LCA is the winner.
The JF-17/ J10 maybe are copies but when they are firing an SD-10A/ AMAARM/ 5th gen IR WRM at you, will you stop and shout 'you are a copy, you can't blow me up'…:-) comeon dude get real! Paks have been putting their F-16s in DACT with JF-17, guess which one comes out top? Oh just before i finish, chinese are currently testing WS-15A engine with TVC for the JF-17. Guess what that will do to the copy? Do you think it matters if its a copy or not? IAF simply needs a good reliable plane.
This is what happens when substandard, low-IQ people get into DRDO under OBC,SC,ST,NT,VT categories.
India is a big failure.
Full Privatisation of HAL is only hope for this nation of fools.
@ all Critics
Still trying to understand how can you compare the LCA VS J10/JF17 by just looking at some photos??????!!!!
The J10 has already had 2 crashes and there is no actual third party data on this other than what the chinese are telling us
JF17… also though inducted – has anyone see it firing any missiles or droping any bomb… this also what the PAF is telling…
And still we have people commenting how the LCA will perform!!!!!
gerard,
How old are you dude? SEEN JF-17 firing missiles, dropping bombs!!!! Doubting PAF/PLAAF, is cluthing at straws. Don't mislead yourself, reverse the situation: JF-17 in indian hands and LCA with Pakistan. You would be laughing at the incompetence of the PAks…right!
Btw boys JF-17 will have as standard the KLJ-10 radar. Question is where will the LCA be?
Radar range is not means to an end…remember in the red flag the Bison was more of a threat to the F-16/F15s than the much vaunted Su-30mki.
@ Dhirendra Verma,
Probably the pilots don't do those manoeuvres in that part of the sky under which your place is located.
You have no idea what the LCA is. You need to read up some materials before u start commenting upon the LCA air frame, avionics etc. Little knowledge is very dangerous.
@ Subho,
With all your IIT degree what have you really done for the Indian aerospace industry. If you are really that great, why don't you help instead of complaining in forums like these.
Do you have any idea about the kind of hard work that has gone into making this plane. Inspite of all the sanctions, inspite of a crawling industrial base, the scientists and engineers at ADA has done a splendid job. The LCA has given us the experience of building a true 4th generation fighter plane.
I am sure the engineers at ADA (even if they don't have an IIT degree,….. in fact I did find some IITians there ) are a thousand times more productive than you have ever been in your entire life.
I don't think the indian air force gave IOC just by the looks but actual testing right!so its so foolish of us to comment just by seeing a few rivets and criticize the performance of the aircraft.
If JF17 is such a capable fighter then, why is a country like Peru having 2nd thoughts in buying that bird?
Saudi Arabia dropped the India of purchasing JF17. Why? Why didn't they go ahead? Tell me any decent country which is interested in JF17?
I do agree Tejas is far from perfect. But being the 1st 100% Indian AC, I will say it's a superb AC. Idea behind building Tejas is to acquire capabilities to build state of the art weapons system. Even evolved ACs like Mig 29, Typhoon, F18s, F15s are still facing glitches.
I don't think there is any reservation in ISRO, DRDO or IA for that matter.
I belong to the general category and I have worked in a very large PSU. The SC, ST, OBC candidates are as good as general candidates. Some of them are even better than general candidates. We mustn't stereotype anyone on the basis of race, caste etc. It is due to our typical racist mentality we are unable to integrate with one another or end up getting bashed in foreign countries.
Does LCA have mid air refueling capability?
@
Anonymous said…
If JF17 is such a capable fighter then, why is a country like Peru having 2nd thoughts in buying that bird?
GOOD ONE thats what the LCA is about GOOD Analysis and post ADA has come up with openings for Engineers and Scientist I would like all my INDIAN friends with good knowledge of Aeroengneering to apply and then help build the LCA
@ Kals.
“With all your IIT degree what have you really done for the Indian aerospace industry. If you are really that great, why don't you help instead of complaining in forums like these.”
What kind off criticism is that????
I didn’t like Kites so should i make a movie? I don’t like Vanilla ice cream or Gen Kayani. I am also not a fan of Hafiz Saed or Ahmedinajad?
You see where I am going with this line of thought!
There are a billion things that are wrong with this world (in my opinion) so should I not voice concern about them? I however cannot change those billion things but I can and should voice my opinion on them and some of it would be construed upon as criticism.
Why someone has decided to become a scientist at DRDO or someone else decided to go to US is not for questioning here.
@ Subho
Subho, could you please explain why you think LCA is not good enough?
I do not HATE/LIKE the LCA, in other words I am NEUTRAL.
It would be better for all of us I feel if you could explain why LCA is inferior to JF 17/10.
Don’t compare LCA against 39, 16, 18 Euro etc. I understand that Pakistan can buy any 4+ or 4++ fighters (if it can afford them) but comparing LCA against the MMRCA birds would not be fair.
Also do keep in mind that LCA is still evolving so I would really appreciate if you could keep the product road map in mind while penning your thoughts.
Please do not provide links or ask me to do the comparisons myself. My question is to you. Links for further reading is fine but do provide the gist of the write up from those links.
I am no robotics grad from Mellon but I do have an impressionable mind and am no fool either (in other words I have a masters degree from a top uni in the west as well)
I do hope that you write about this as it will give others a chance to understand your POV without calling you names.
Cheers,
Lungikawasta.
OK so u have an MS from cranigie Melton. so what? the GM of Hal'S RAR&DC is an MS FROM MIT, he was an IITian too (heck even i am and i work for the same div(IIT kanpur aerospace 2008) ) so what differnce do u think an IIT degree will make to an aerospace industry which was plagued by sanctions and many more unseen factors, i agree there is some problem regarding the workmen and culture but u have them everywhere in India and ranting about a Hi-Tech A/C doesn't solve the problem (specially when u are just a production engg grad)u would do better to design some CNCs (If u can ie;) The LCA is just as good(if not better)as its counterparts (read JAS-39) and it was proved with the recent MMRCA trials and when it gets its IOC u will all be entertained(AI 2011) for sure but let me remind u, the fancy cobra and the kulbit are just for the airshows and nothing more, when u are in combat, all that matters is your EW and the RADAR which the LCA has and is better than what the chinks and porks have
I am posting anonymous since my company doesn't appreciate replying to uninformed people like you, so enjoy your ignorance and please don't mention IIT as something out of this world, there are many more who have passed out before you and many after u and who have done/are doing better than you
Well said ananymous that no decent country is intrested in JF17..
Actully pakistan is just buyin dis junk plane coz
1. Pakis cant rely on american tecnlogy coz americans can anytime issue sanctions
2. Cant access russian technology.
3. Europian technology is way to costly for poor country lik pakistan to afford
So that leaves pakistan to buy scrap from china and plus dey can boast that they hav build dat plane
I WISH THE EJ2000 GETS SELECTED FOR THE ENGINE COMPETETION HAS A LOT OF BENEFITS OVER 414 AS IT COMES WITH FULL TOT AND LESS SANCTIONS ALSO IS THRUST VECTORING I KNOW THAT F414 IS GETTING DEVELOPED FURTHER BUT THE LCA REQUIREMENT IS IMMEADIATE THE EJ2000 IS SAID TO BE DEVELOPED ATLEAST THAT WHAT I HEAR I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING IT IS NOT POINTED TO ANYONE THOUGH
(IF I KNOW THE CONDITION OF MY TEETH I KNOW WHAT I CAN CHEW)