The Eurofighter team at the bid opening was led by a senior EADS Cassidian official (not Dr Stefan Zoller as earlier posted), while the Rafale team was led by Dassault Aviation Vice President Alain Remaudière.
While nothing is clear just yet, sources suggest that it’s going to be tight: while it will take a few weeks to arrive at a common denomination (also currency conversions apparently — one of the bids had values in at least three currencies), sources indicate that the apparent difference between the two offers is thin, not as much as had been widely predicted (India’s Mint business daily quotes a source with “direct knowledge of the matter” that Dassault’s bid was “marginally lower” on unit cost compared to Eurofighter’s). There is, however, no official clarity on the bids, and there is unlikely to be any before a lowest bidder is made known next month. The MoD will presumably announce the lowest bidder officially.
Clearly, it’s also a time ripe for reading into everything. The Pioneer newspaper suggests that a meeting between the Indian Prime Minister and French President in Cannes on the sidelines of the ongoing G20 summit, inexplicably cancelled at the last minute, suggested that France had lost the competition.
EADS Cassidian released this statement shortly after the opening of bids: Our offer for India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender is backed by the four Eurofighter partner nations as well as their respective aerospace and defence industries. It is competitive and designed to deliver maximum value to India. Our proposal to make India a full partner in the Eurofighter programme is fully supported by Germany, the UK, Spain and Italy.
Will update this post if/when Dassault makes a statement.
Graphic / Livefist (Cartoon images© sourced from Laurent Chassard & 0tamago)
by seeing the pic it looks like we are welcoming rafale and saying ef goodbye 😛
is the ef showing a brazil flag ?
more specualtions
Hi Shiv,
So what will happen if the lowest bid is much higher than the 42,000 crore allocated for this deal???
HEY SHIV,
SAW YOUR SPECIAL REPORT ON MMRCA ON HT ON 3 OCT
Seems like Rafel is lowest bidder as there is comment from Eurofighter. The lowest bidder need not explain anything.
Waiting for RAFALE. . . . . .
Here's Headlines Today's report yesterday on the bids opening:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/indian-air-force-fighter-aircraft-deal/1/158560.html
EADS is not telling the truth when they say that there is fully supported by the partner nations. Especially in Germany there is strong political oppostion to this deal, as it's against their supposed political values and it would 'destabilise the region' (may be Paki lobbying at work). It would certainly cause India headache in the future, if India selectes the Eurofighter.
most welcome to rafale. france is more stable. it openly supported india's nuclear programme.
Typical bollywood anticlimax…
When will MOD deliver the baby? Till then IAF will continue to bleed. Sorry state of affairs specially when there is lot of rattling done by the Chinese. Pity
I think Rafale since Radar in Euro has tot limits
rafale is best""as TOT by them
why not any other customer for rafale??? plz tell…..
hey shiv…what's you think who is gonna make to mmrca……any speculations?
A rapid analysis:
1 – the price gap between the two offers is smaller than 15% or else the winner would have been announced immediatly.
2 – Rafale is leading or else Cassidian wouldn't have issued such an useless communique whose purpose seems only to push the indian officals to make more a political choice (satisfy 4 nations against 1) than a financial one.
3 – knowing the regularly estimated price gap between Rafale and Eurofighter (30%/40%), the Cassidian team has certainly gone to its minimum and can't go no further in this direction. Thus the insistance on the political factors in the communique.
4 – I really can't figure out Eurofighter making such a "dumb" statement, would they have in a leading position…
What's your opinion ?
Whichever way this swings..there are going to be wild allegations i assume….
I don't know how could there still be any doubt. The Eurofighter is NOT a multi-role fighter, it was not designed to be one and will never be as good as the Rafale in ground attack.
The Rafale fulfils ALL of the requirements of the MMRCA, plus France has always proven to India that is a trustworthy partner.
Case closed: Rafale wins!
EADS will be the winner either way. It controlls 46% share of both Eurofighter Gmbh and Dassault Aviation.
Since you say there is not much of differences, what would happen if both Typhoon and rafale happen to have same price points ?
just for kicks :).
-Murali
The never ending saga never ends. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. People will be flying alien aircraft before the MOD chooses a plane. Pathetic.
such an early dumb release of statement indicates only one thing from that context,Eurofighter knows it has been pushed back by rafale.I'm super excited to know the full pitch and the marketing and price war initiated after this.Offering F-35 ,and keeping hornets under purview will only help to reduce foul play.From here only India can be the winner in every aspect unless it plays it's cards dumbly.
Thanks Shiv for the posting and for the dedication. Very few webmasters have taken time to update rest of folks on what is going on. Thanks again and keep up the good work
As long as 'Italy' is a partner, Eurofighter has a chance 🙂
can someone please tell me what the significance of this is? Opening the "bids" seems to me that they are just confirming the prices that were quoted initially. Is this all or am i missing something?
Manmohan And Sarcozy meet cancelled!!!let me guess why, I think India expected much lowered bid from France at the tender. France playing hardball with its proven history of siding India. Eurofighter bid may be low enough to excite India but not good enough for Strategic considarations.
Mallik
Check your sources , there is no vice president called Alain Remaudiere in Dassault Aviation.
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/aviation/group/presentation/organization-chart.html?L=1
and about the meeting cancelled , french medias (Le Figaro ..) say Sarkozy had to cancel several meetings yesterday at g20 to solve problems about Greece and the Europea debt
Reliable medias shouldn't report such rumours without any serious verification.
Eurofighter seems to be in front in this contest on the political side. With awarding of the $4billion Mirage 2000 contract to the french, i do not think the government is going to award a $10 billion plus contract too to the french. The french have been adequately compensated with the mirage contract and also the mega multibillion dollar scorpene submarine project.
Nevertheless India needs to have all its negotiating antennae switched on while finalising the contract and use the best legal minds to ensure there are no loop holes in the contract that suit the interests of either company to the disadvantage of the indian airforce. This is a long term 40 year deal and we should make sure we do not screwed by either company in terms of spares support, end user modifications based on iaf in service operational experiences and support during a conflict with China. With regards to F35 being offered, the point is that plane is so far behind schedule and cost overruns and IOC no where in sight anytime soon, how do we expect the IAF to put it into service in a time frame i.e.2016-2018 where even the FGFA will be ready for take up by the IAF. 2016 is an optimistic target for the F35.
Eurofighter is currently the only airframe that still has potential for growth. The rafale seems to have to reached its full airframe growth potential barring addition of more powerful engines paid for by India and addition of conformal fuel tanks and AESA radar.
Personally i feel India should have just stuck with the SU30MKI and given it a massive mid life upgrade with an extra dose of western style glass cockpit avionics and other technologies currently available on the TYPHOON or Rafale.
So the Rafale isn't cheaper by miles!, the news is its marginally cheaper. <5%, life cycle is the same.
So its down to strategic interest & ToT.
Shiv in the absence of picture of crying executives which one do you think will win, and which one would you like to see win?
Immediately we need to change our defence procurement policy…late and late
Sk
Shiv,i see danger when you said one of the bidder i.e EADS quoted in three currencies. so rupee going low will make things much worse for us.Rafale is good choice because it has both airforce and naval variant with almost proven AESA. Germany, Italy and UK are troublesome partners. we spent billions ,but we never get what we want!!!
Small difference in price but Rafale is already developed and multirole. Typhoon costs will balloon up to more than $20 billion to fix this aircraft.
Kitne tym se yahi sun rahe hai k Aab Bid khule aab bid khulega….Jane kab bid khulega? aur jane kab production start hoga? aur jane kaab India Induct karega Inme se koi fighter plan? mujhey lagta hai Jab tak ye sare 126 plans induct honge tab tak India k Pass T-50 bhi aa jayega..
Itna late q decision lene mein..
Itni alsi MOD hai k kya kahein…
Kab India MahaShakti banegi..
dassault is not an idiot, it know the price root limit of ef2000, dassault can down the price to 15% more. public price is 64ME for rafale et 84ME for ef2000. EADS can t down more the price, Dassault can play its price for save money. rafale had much more capabilities than ef2000 because bad design rule definition.
ef2000 high altitud interceptor,
with limited usage bombing.
rafale is onmirole, air superiority, bomber, nuke strike,recce, war electronic, semi stealth, team networking, anti ship. After two confrontation rafale vs ef2000, rafale won 1v1 dogfight and rafale won 7-1 4v4 4-0 & 2v4 3-1 dog & bvr. That why Dassault claim now the air superiority on EF2000 since this confrontation. EF2000 can detect rafale at 40km range, Rafale detect ef2000 at 80km range, if EF2000 turn on its radar and send impulsion, the passiv radar spectra rafale detect and lock for fire answer. rafale don t need to turn on its aesa radar, because it is semi stealth, by form, by absorbant component, by advanced strategic counter measure, by low ir/em at manoeuvre, it is major point why dassault don t want of 9t m88 and prefer the 7.5t. it is a big point vs F16,JF17,J20,J10. India cooperation can develop new tools for rafale. EF2000 is very good for intercept Russian Bear 95 in hight altitude. they are not made for same rule.
Rafale has proven itself in Libya that it is a truly multirole aircraft. Moreover its AESA radar will be integrated from 2013 onwards much ahead of that of the Eurofighter.Countries like Brazil, U.A.E., Switzerland, Kuwait and even Malaysia have shown interest in the jet and most of them would be prospective customers.Instead of upgrading the Mirage 2000s the the French should be pressurized to reduce the price of their fighter so that more number of planes can be purchased.managing with four nations in EF's case could be a nightmare for MoD as well as for the Indian Airforce.
once the bids are open none can lower the price as per the foot-in-the-mouth rules laid out!!!!
i have a question, when the bids have been opened, what is the delay for? why hasnt been the bids announced ? to leak the info to other parties? something is fishy here, this is not the way to disclose winner.
"12:08:" The extraordinary summit between EU leaders continues. It's going on since 1:40, forcing Nicolas Sarkozy to postpone his scheduled meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Sing ""
http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2011/11/03/04016-20111103ARTFIG00440-referendum-en-grece-le-premier-ministre-isole.php
Since it is going to be a contract for very long time, so even with a single window, the four nation theory may not look so much justified. In MMRCA we need a multirole workhorse, so Rafale is better in-spite of the fact that it may be a shade lesser in air superiority than to EFT.
The only politico-economical point that may go against the Rafale is that they have already received a large order for Mirage2000 upgrade albeit technically this should make a positive point.
Euro fighter is the best, i hope it wins this!
I think Rafael is the winner
I think Rafael is the winner for the simple reason that French are dependable and their technology is cutting edge.
There were reports that France/Dessault will help India to produce aircraft engines to power Indian made aircrafts. The engine will also be used on future French airforce jets. Now is the time to bring that clause in the open.
Baldev Dhaliwal