Need help with CAD, Photoshop etc? Please share the details. I hope you can describe elaborately what you saw. BTW, that doesnt look like Borei-class at all.
Are those Dive Planes on the sail? If they are, then I havent seen them on Akula, Borei, Charlie or any other Russian Nuke subs, Russians dont prefer them on Nukesubs since they have break ice to surface in the artic.
Mr Aroor, if you have made this drawing yourself, then i must congratulate you. It is very true to the real design. It was a pleasure to meet all of you yesterday. Hope the govt can allow you to come again for the Arihant HAT phase to observe the same. Best of luck.
it does not have the blended sail of the akula, and not the main features of the giant borey. dimensions and general shape are highly similar to the charlie, almost a fit in fact.
I see more similarity between the USS Ohio SSBN,the dive planes on the sail, the gradual hump, back-end of the Sub etc. A very interesting design, though we have considerable Russian help, it is very unlike a Russian nuke sub
spectacular baby boomer. silly of GOI not to release photos. anyhow, this is quite clearly of a hybrid design taking from russian and western sensibilities, and incorporating our own designers line innovations. the size is not a downer. it will stand the project in good stead for our next larger boomer, which i understand, has already been sanctioned.
it is very much like a Russian sub. It looks like a Charlie and Kilo mated and birthed it. No American sub, except perhaps the latest Virginias, have this beam to length ratio. They tend to be more lean. Unless of course you're telling me the Arihant is based on the Virginia (rollseyes).
Nice little ship though I wish it is bigger. Perhaps building an SSN would have been betterr.
Your line drawing in not good enough. The sail is as big as the diameter of the body – that is not possible. There is no evidence of any forward slope of the sail or for that matter any slope on the sail.
You did not display the vents for water intake. some part of the sonar has to be visible. There have to be windows on the sail.
This is a childish drawing. Please get someone who is more artistic and can think in 3 Dimensions to do the drawing.
[email protected]: shiv is not a CAD artist or an engineer, nor does he claim to be one. This appears to be a drawing he has made from memory, since cameras were not allowed into the dock as he has made clear. therefore, instead of flinging accusations like "childish drawing" etc, have the basic courtesy to understand what is being offered. i think we all know that if photos were made available, they would have been posted by shiv here first. we are all quite accustomed to his dedication to what is after all a personal blog for him. and we must admit he puts photos here before anyone else has a chance to react. a little appreciation may not be inappropriate. On the other hand Shiv, i think you should take such criticism in the right spirit, since it means that your readers expect the world from you! 🙂
Glad to see not much details or photos being revealed. It is time Indias leaders mature and do the right thing which they did in this instance. There is too much money and lives at risk for the leaders to come out and advertise photos and minute details about this sub. I am sure there will be low-lives who will try to goad people with knowledge of this sub to reveal its details. These people with knowledge should exercise restraint and not reveal too much detail. Please!
She doesnt look like any Russian nuke design,and she is no Charlie Class for various reasons, and we need a SSBN thana SSN,its a matter of priorites, as well as we can get SSN on lease not a SSBN. Do a little bit of research.
This isno charlie,borei, akula, kilo, Ohio etc,this is the Arihant,a new class with no precedors, just a brilliant design from thosewonderful indo-russo group
This kind of ass headed remark is why countries like India or China will always be backward in military technology. Defence is too important to be left to a few scientists working secretly in their labs and only rolled out in war for befuddled users. How do you know it would work in war, if only a few eyes saw it?
why does the premier military force America publish so much information in the public realm? because it can prioritise information, knowing which information it has to keep secret, and which information is useful to share for the sake of internal discussion, public information and for the sake of attracting bright young talents and people into the military arms.
you don't have a thinking military and keep them in the dark and feed them crap churned through your propaganda mill. Innovation and improvement can come up through the grassroots as well.
So what if foreign agencies can see the shape of your submarine? it still needs to tag your submarine and record its sound profile and count the blade count to identify each one, which it would do regardless of whether you show the picture or not.
ridiculous decision by the Indian military to keep the boat pictures secret, especially when it doesn't have a revolutionary propulsion or some other wicked equipment.
Vincent, your inputs are most compelling and profound. I for one, will always remain a student. BTW, thanks for stopping at the Charlie's and not extending the time line by asserting that the INS Arihant is a "modified WW I U-boat".
I am for one, extremely grateful to you for whatever you are doing. Comments which ridicule your drawing are completely idiotic, simply because you are doing your best, and Heck of all the buggers who keep criticizing you, YOU were THERE ! I am happy with whatever you are willing to share.
How indigenous is indigenous? I like India but the arrogance of Indians and the perceived self worth and boastfulness is shameful. The coming years will tell…..
Frankly, Shiv Aroor's line diagram raises more questions than it provides answers. OTOH, given the understandable secrecy of the project, this is understandable. One will have to wait till actual photos emerge, and even then, there might/will be legitimate concerns/questions. IMHO it's a very good achievement by India. The sticking point is the 750-1000 Km range of the K-15 missile, which is absurd. I hope that development of the 3500 Km Agni 3SL/K-X missile is placed on top priority, so that some version of it is tested during the sea trials, allowing commissioning of of the INS Arihant as a complete and potent strategic weapon system.
Frankly, Shiv Aroor's line drawing raises more questions than it provides answers. OTOH, given the secrecy of the project this is understandable. One will have to wait till actual photos emerge, and even then, there will/might be genuine concerns/questions. IMHO, it's is a very good achievement by India. The sticking point is the 750-1000 Km range of the K-15 missiles, which is absurd. Development of the 3,500 Km Agni 3SL/K-X missile should be accorded top priority, so that some version of it is tested during the sea trials. This will allow INS Arihant to be commissioned as a complete and potent strategic weapon system.
Its a replica of Kilo-Class and Borei-Class and some how it is quiet closely design to Lada-Class. The Vertical Launching system is designed from that concept. I was accepting more like Akula-II which is much more stealthier than this one. It looks like Baby Borei-Class. But, Hope every thing goes well because it is start of India's Nuclear Submarine program.
Based on your input Shiv, I have prepared two preliminary designs for the Arihant. One is inspired by Borei-class and the other by your graphic. The designs are based on length 111m and dia 11m. Please identify the one closest to the real thing and also suggests appropriate changes and alterations. ATV Speculation 1 ATV Speculation 2
In case of ATV Speculation 2 kindly describe how wide is the hump and how does it merge with the sail? Is it like this?
Hi Shiv, Thanks for your coverage and your artistic talent! 😉 This simple drawing is largely sufficient to have an idea on the technical formula chosen by the DRDO. That's all we need now, till the Navy give us the right to know more about it. This lauch is a really big step forward for the IN and, indeed, its a shame we don't have more pictures… but that's the way it is. BTW, I agree with Shaktiraj on the fact that the Arihant looks more like a modified version of the Lada-class subs, in terms of hydrodynamic formula (dive planes), weight and size. I think the "hump over the hump" is used to ease the installation of the missile bay, given the size of K-15 missiles (the DRDO will have some efforts to do to further reduce its height). The ATV programm seems to have a common conceptual basis with the Brazilian project lead with France: take a diesel/electric sub with good design, modify the size of the hull, put a nuclear reactor and new missiles… tadaaaaam! You get an interesting formula, saving a bit of time and money.
Need help with CAD, Photoshop etc? Please share the details. I hope you can describe elaborately what you saw.
BTW, that doesnt look like Borei-class at all.
basic qualities of borei and some others also. compressed version of borei it seems to be.
good illustration. it is a very close reproduction of the ATV profile. good job.
It is a modified Charlie class. Definitely not Borei or Akula.
But well done India.
I hope this helps to squash some of the uninformed and ignorant speculation that INS Arihant is a copy of the Charlie-I/II class subs.
Vincent, could you please highlight in point form specific arguments substantiating your claim that this is a "modified Charlie class".
Shiv,
Are those Dive Planes on the sail? If they are, then I havent seen them on Akula, Borei, Charlie or any other Russian Nuke subs, Russians dont prefer them on Nukesubs since they have break ice to surface in the artic.
yes, those are diveplanes.
quite impressive design.
Mr Aroor, if you have made this drawing yourself, then i must congratulate you. It is very true to the real design. It was a pleasure to meet all of you yesterday. Hope the govt can allow you to come again for the Arihant HAT phase to observe the same. Best of luck.
it does not have the blended sail of the akula, and not the main features of the giant borey. dimensions and general shape are highly similar to the charlie, almost a fit in fact.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/theater/pl670a.jpg
Did it look like this?
Yankee class submarine
I see more similarity between the USS Ohio SSBN,the dive planes on the sail, the gradual hump, back-end of the Sub etc. A very interesting design, though we have considerable Russian help, it is very unlike a Russian nuke sub
spectacular baby boomer. silly of GOI not to release photos. anyhow, this is quite clearly of a hybrid design taking from russian and western sensibilities, and incorporating our own designers line innovations. the size is not a downer. it will stand the project in good stead for our next larger boomer, which i understand, has already been sanctioned.
it is very much like a Russian sub. It looks like a Charlie and Kilo mated and birthed it. No American sub, except perhaps the latest Virginias, have this beam to length ratio. They tend to be more lean. Unless of course you're telling me the Arihant is based on the Virginia (rollseyes).
Nice little ship though I wish it is bigger. Perhaps building an SSN would have been betterr.
wowee!
Your line drawing in not good enough. The sail is as big as the diameter of the body – that is not possible. There is no evidence of any forward slope of the sail or for that matter any slope on the sail.
You did not display the vents for water intake. some part of the sonar has to be visible. There have to be windows on the sail.
This is a childish drawing. Please get someone who is more artistic and can think in 3 Dimensions to do the drawing.
[email protected]: shiv is not a CAD artist or an engineer, nor does he claim to be one. This appears to be a drawing he has made from memory, since cameras were not allowed into the dock as he has made clear. therefore, instead of flinging accusations like "childish drawing" etc, have the basic courtesy to understand what is being offered. i think we all know that if photos were made available, they would have been posted by shiv here first. we are all quite accustomed to his dedication to what is after all a personal blog for him. and we must admit he puts photos here before anyone else has a chance to react. a little appreciation may not be inappropriate. On the other hand Shiv, i think you should take such criticism in the right spirit, since it means that your readers expect the world from you! 🙂
Wow! Thx for taking the effort, Shiv!
[OT]
Any updates on the A-50EI? She's totally dropped off the radar!
[/OT]
Glad to see not much details or photos being revealed. It is time Indias leaders mature and do the right thing which they did in this instance. There is too much money and lives at risk for the leaders to come out and advertise photos and minute details about this sub. I am sure there will be low-lives who will try to goad people with knowledge of this sub to reveal its details. These people with knowledge should exercise restraint and not reveal too much detail. Please!
Vincent,
She doesnt look like any Russian nuke design,and she is no Charlie Class for various reasons, and we need a SSBN thana SSN,its a matter of priorites, as well as we can get SSN on lease not a SSBN. Do a little bit of research.
This isno charlie,borei, akula, kilo, Ohio etc,this is the Arihant,a new class with no precedors, just a brilliant design from thosewonderful indo-russo group
Shiv awesome job as usual!!!
This kind of ass headed remark is why countries like India or China will always be backward in military technology. Defence is too important to be left to a few scientists working secretly in their labs and only rolled out in war for befuddled users. How do you know it would work in war, if only a few eyes saw it?
why does the premier military force America publish so much information in the public realm? because it can prioritise information, knowing which information it has to keep secret, and which information is useful to share for the sake of internal discussion, public information and for the sake of attracting bright young talents and people into the military arms.
you don't have a thinking military and keep them in the dark and feed them crap churned through your propaganda mill. Innovation and improvement can come up through the grassroots as well.
So what if foreign agencies can see the shape of your submarine? it still needs to tag your submarine and record its sound profile and count the blade count to identify each one, which it would do regardless of whether you show the picture or not.
ridiculous decision by the Indian military to keep the boat pictures secret, especially when it doesn't have a revolutionary propulsion or some other wicked equipment.
Why is there a hump over the hump(near the sail)? No other sub is like this.
Shiv, the work has almost been completed. I hope that the sub will almost be like this.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arihant.svg
Your inputs were very valuable.
Thank you.
commendable effort by shiv aroor. nobody takes such efforts these days. great job done.
This looks great
NIce job Shiv.
Why do we need a larger sub?
Isn't this good enough?
Vincent, your inputs are most compelling and profound. I for one, will always remain a student. BTW, thanks for stopping at the Charlie's and not extending the time line by asserting that the INS Arihant is a "modified WW I U-boat".
Shiv,
I am for one, extremely grateful to you for whatever you are doing. Comments which ridicule your drawing are completely idiotic, simply because you are doing your best, and Heck of all the buggers who keep criticizing you, YOU were THERE ! I am happy with whatever you are willing to share.
How indigenous is indigenous? I like India but the arrogance of Indians and the perceived self worth and boastfulness is shameful. The coming years will tell…..
Frankly, Shiv Aroor's line diagram raises more questions than it provides answers. OTOH, given the understandable secrecy of the project, this is understandable. One will have to wait till actual photos emerge, and even then, there might/will be legitimate concerns/questions. IMHO it's a very good achievement by India. The sticking point is the 750-1000 Km range of the K-15 missile, which is absurd. I hope that development of the 3500 Km Agni 3SL/K-X missile is placed on top priority, so that some version of it is tested during the sea trials, allowing commissioning of of the INS Arihant as a complete and potent strategic weapon system.
Frankly, Shiv Aroor's line drawing raises more questions than it provides answers. OTOH, given the secrecy of the project this is understandable. One will have to wait till actual photos emerge, and even then, there will/might be genuine concerns/questions. IMHO, it's is a very good achievement by India. The sticking point is the 750-1000 Km range of the K-15 missiles, which is absurd. Development of the 3,500 Km Agni 3SL/K-X missile should be accorded top priority, so that some version of it is tested during the sea trials. This will allow INS Arihant to be commissioned as a complete and potent strategic weapon system.
Its a replica of Kilo-Class and Borei-Class and some how it is quiet closely design to Lada-Class. The Vertical Launching system is designed from that concept. I was accepting more like Akula-II which is much more stealthier than this one. It looks like Baby Borei-Class.
But, Hope every thing goes well because it is start of India's Nuclear Submarine program.
Watch the video on Atv at
http://edition.cnn.com/video/
Based on your input Shiv, I have prepared two preliminary designs for the Arihant. One is inspired by Borei-class and the other by your graphic.
The designs are based on length 111m and dia 11m.
Please identify the one closest to the real thing and also suggests appropriate changes and alterations.
ATV Speculation 1
ATV Speculation 2
In case of ATV Speculation 2 kindly describe how wide is the hump and how does it merge with the sail? Is it like this?
Harpreet,
your speculation2 is the closest to Arihant.
It definitely looks more like ATV Speculation-2.
Hi Shiv,
Thanks for your coverage and your artistic talent! 😉 This simple drawing is largely sufficient to have an idea on the technical formula chosen by the DRDO. That's all we need now, till the Navy give us the right to know more about it.
This lauch is a really big step forward for the IN and, indeed, its a shame we don't have more pictures… but that's the way it is.
BTW, I agree with Shaktiraj on the fact that the Arihant looks more like a modified version of the Lada-class subs, in terms of hydrodynamic formula (dive planes), weight and size.
I think the "hump over the hump" is used to ease the installation of the missile bay, given the size of K-15 missiles (the DRDO will have some efforts to do to further reduce its height).
The ATV programm seems to have a common conceptual basis with the Brazilian project lead with France: take a diesel/electric sub with good design, modify the size of the hull, put a nuclear reactor and new missiles… tadaaaaam! You get an interesting formula, saving a bit of time and money.
Have a nice day, everyone!