Whoever said that needs to be replaced from his/her position. Why is the IAF performing manned ops in Maoist areas? Such areas should be made the proving grounds for their inventory of UAVs, UCAVs, Drones etc. What numb-nuts our armed forces have been raising, is a mystery! No wonder the administration fails to recognize the importance of private sector.
The condition of IAF is this because it lacks sufficient no. of attack choppers. The choppers which are used in maoist operations have less significant self defence counter measures which falls prey to maoist bullets. There should be a dedicated gun point and provision to fire small rockets. Also Govt. policies does not allow heavily armed choppers to be used for such operations.
Gen. V K Singh opposed and resisted to deployment of Army vehemently because of the Collateral Damage also because he wanted to conserve Army men's ENERGY, SO that they are ready to take challenge of external enemy and fight the wars in the Border Areas anytime.
Collateral Damage will destabilize the BJP/BJD/RJD/Communist (Non Congress Party)led governments in their respective states(C.G./Odissa/Bihar/Jharkhand and W.B.)which is the main objective of Cong-led UPA of deploying Indian Army and Air-Force in these states..so He became the target and politically hired media created huge controversies against him to defame him.
Now it's turn to use Air-Force so that Collateral Damage will more and it will be easy to run media campaign by Congress in those states to dis launch the ruling parties in those states..exactly what's happening in Chattisgarh today(i.e. Congress is blaming BJP CM for Encounter by CRPF and media is helping to spread the flame..so nasty politics..now a days. God Save Our INDIA!
The IAF has always been a bunch of loudmouths where they talk a good game and when faced with the slightest issue, start whining like little girls. Talk to any pilot and they will tell you that without them India will be speaking Pashtun or eating Rice noodles. They dont care for the Army. Mind you, I dont doubt their courage. But they have this attitude that they are the prime force and everyone needs to support their operations. What they dont realize is that they are mostly in support of the Army unless there is outright war where there are Strategic operations to be performed. Hence they hold on to the helicopter gunships and have minimized the role of Army Aviation. As though Army Aviaiton pilots cant fly. This issue goes beyond the airforce. Such operations have to be performed by Army Aviation where it will work in close co-ordination with the Infantry or BSF. The Army Aviation pilots as I have seen in Siachen are quick to adapt and innovate and perform the task at hand while the Air force pilots usually baulk at doing anything out of the ordinary. That might seem an unfair statement, but most often than never that has been the case. IAF needs to recognize its role and Army Aviation needs to be doing these operations…Front and Center !!!!
This is the right time to send our LCH for weapon trials in those areas. Who is stopping them to fire back in thay were under fired. I think they have the permission for that.
well It is easy to speak against the IAF.but please do look from the IAF side.First they do not have sufficient number of attack helicopter and second they do not have permission to open fire from goverment of Indian to be precise the Home Ministry.Why should the IAF loose million dollor worth of equipment and trained pilots when they have capabilities to fight back .the answer to this is that if they open fire incase they come under fire from maoist and if they kill them,this will cause political problems ie the same home minister will retract from this responsibility when the Human Rights people or opposition will force goverment to prosecute the IAF pilots stating that innocents have been killed by IAF. IAF is making this statement only to make sure they are not made scrape goat. Look at in case of j&K.The Indian army during an encounter always have to inform and take j&k police personnel to show as proof what they did and if prosecuted the army can produce police personnel as proof. The great Indian Media does to try to analyse the the meaning of the news.
well It is easy to speak against the IAF.but please do look from the IAF side.First they do not have sufficient number of attack helicopter and second they do not have permission to open fire from goverment of Indian to be precise the Home Ministry.Why should the IAF loose million dollor worth of equipment and trained pilots when they have capabilities to fight back .the answer to this is that if they open fire incase they come under fire from maoist and if they kill them,this will cause political problems ie the same home minister will retract from this responsibility when the Human Rights people or opposition will force goverment to prosecute the IAF pilots stating that innocents have been killed by IAF. IAF is making this statement only to make sure they are not made scrape goat. Look at in case of j&K.The Indian army during an encounter always have to inform and take j&k police personnel to show as proof what they did and if prosecuted the army can produce police personnel as proof. The great Indian Media does to try to analyse the the meaning of the news.
IAF should not be involved in such operation ,a all. This is Law & Order and social development related problem , army or air-force should be kept away from such civil operation .for state Police and Adm officers , we should develop effective training on Army curriculum to improve to the level of army as in coming years armed militancy would be more well trained , well armed and more dedicated to their cause. Armed forces are the last institution let them remain less polluted and dedicate their services on Borders only .Mixing wit h civil issues will only dilute their. effectiveness.
How are helicopters supposed to fire when these are on ground, landing or taking off. Why can not the CRPF or BSF or state forces sanitise a hellipads. What CI operations the thullas would do if they remain stuck to their dandas mentality only. It takes maximum a platoon to sanitise an area of 300m by 300 m. Helicopters on ground are vulnerable. Loss of one helicopter means loss of pay of ten CRPF battalions for a year or even more. Why do not the educated commenting here understand that loss of helicopters means a big victory for naxals. Some people comment from aft.We are not Americans who can afford to loose 5000 helicopters in vietnam and loose a war.
What India need to do is monitor Maoist movements using UCAVs and launch long range ATGs from standoff ranges to completely obliterate the entire terrorist den. Show ABSOLUTELY no mercy. Wipe them out from air. And then go and get some beer. Thats enough risk for the day.
For God's sake – these fellows call themselves an armed force and are afraid to take risks in battle. They make derogatory comments on the blog under anonymous titles, when the Police and Paramilitary forces are risking their lives fighting in the jungles of Central India. It is this attitude of the IAF that has led to their losing the right to fly attack choppers to the Army. About time the Government allowed the Police to equip their units with their own helicopters and let the precious fly boys save their lives and machines for air shows and exercises (to expect them to fight would be too much).
If IAF doesnt have attack helos, then BUY ATTACK helos Damit! Use fighter jets, use ground attack bombers, tanks,artilley….. use whatever the f*** you got. Quite whining like babies! Go back and fight the damn war!
Just read B. Raman's article on rediff.com, he is suggesting decapitating strikes on terrorists inside enemy territory as the option left, and we have seen drills where Mi-17's drop commandos who drive off a jeep, and now I read here that sanitizing an evacuation zone is needed in anti-maoist operations, and I don't see a consistent picture of IAF's capability other than regular warfare.
read few news reports that helis are armoured, probably have bullet proof glass as well, so small arms fire is not a problem, the Maoists are not operating shoulder fired SAMS yet, where is the problem?
As for enough choppers, few Mi-17's were brought back from UN operations, 159 Mi-17's are bing inducted, why not account for internal operations as well by increasing those numbers? Home ministry should oblige
do these news channels need to put such irritating music in the video? its tacky and spoils the impact of what would be an otherwise interesting news piece. any comments shiv?
Cant help but notice that most of the demands of Air force are perfectly valid. They are simply asking that if we are delivering supplies etc to a point then that point shall be properly cleansed of hostiles before drop. In my humble opinion, its a perfectly valid request and I for one wont want an airforce who is needlessly putting its assets in path of destruction. There will be some scenarios where there will be an extraction from a live fire zone but that shall not be a regular thing.
UAV, standoff weapons and counter insurgency specializations shall be improved more and more. Presently helicopters shall be used only for transport and logistics etc.
IAF's problem is if there is "unacceptable" risk they dont do anything to eliminate that risk. Their response is to complain and chicken out instead of figuring out how to fullfill the mission.
US/NATO Army/AF are involved in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan against insurgency operation. Do they complain law & order issue. Or they are only for war with enemy nation. True picture is except training on recruitment by Indian Army, they rarely do exercises or war practices forget guerrilla training. Compare their training with foreign armies.
Abbottabad raid was by Rambos eh? anyways, one chopper in that raid crashed trying to land inside the compound due to air flow issues, now watch this video,
build one such sandbag compound four times the size (5m by 7m) in the video, the compound will have door frames allowing air flow with another sandbag wall covering the entrance to the door frame about 3m away from the door frame so there is no line of sight for an armed sniper and at the same time allowing a stretcher to be brought in. Divide the Maoist area into sectors with one compound in each of the sectors. The problem is its a delicate operation with potential for tail or blade strike on the sandbag compound
and/or
two choppers can buddy pair, an LCH/attack chopper and a Mi-17, LCH can fly patrol while the Mi-17 lands, the advantage is you don't have predesignated targets for Maoists
or
Naval choppers hover over a rescue area and stretchers with casualties are pulleyed up
What does unacceptable risk mean? is WAR safe for which IAF is formed. Will maoist be using more deadly weapons in comparision to pak or china.
Even if maoist use rpg's which will further emphazie on the need of IAF to neutralize the capacity.
Only close co-ord within the involved teams would help in shutting the menace.
Whoever said that needs to be replaced from his/her position. Why is the IAF performing manned ops in Maoist areas? Such areas should be made the proving grounds for their inventory of UAVs, UCAVs, Drones etc. What numb-nuts our armed forces have been raising, is a mystery! No wonder the administration fails to recognize the importance of private sector.
The condition of IAF is this because it lacks sufficient no. of attack choppers. The choppers which are used in maoist operations have less significant self defence counter measures which falls prey to maoist bullets.
There should be a dedicated gun point and provision to fire small rockets. Also Govt. policies does not allow heavily armed choppers to be used for such operations.
Gen. V K Singh opposed and resisted to deployment of Army vehemently because of the Collateral Damage also because he wanted to conserve Army men's ENERGY, SO that they are ready to take challenge of external enemy and fight the wars in the Border Areas anytime.
Collateral Damage will destabilize the BJP/BJD/RJD/Communist (Non Congress Party)led governments in their respective states(C.G./Odissa/Bihar/Jharkhand and W.B.)which is the main objective of Cong-led UPA of deploying Indian Army and Air-Force in these states..so He became the target and politically hired media created huge controversies against him to defame him.
Now it's turn to use Air-Force so that Collateral Damage will more and it will be easy to run media campaign by Congress in those states to dis launch the ruling parties in those states..exactly what's happening in Chattisgarh today(i.e. Congress is blaming BJP CM for Encounter by CRPF and media is helping to spread the flame..so nasty politics..now a days.
God Save Our INDIA!
The IAF has always been a bunch of loudmouths where they talk a good game and when faced with the slightest issue, start whining like little girls. Talk to any pilot and they will tell you that without them India will be speaking Pashtun or eating Rice noodles. They dont care for the Army. Mind you, I dont doubt their courage. But they have this attitude that they are the prime force and everyone needs to support their operations. What they dont realize is that they are mostly in support of the Army unless there is outright war where there are Strategic operations to be performed. Hence they hold on to the helicopter gunships and have minimized the role of Army Aviation. As though Army Aviaiton pilots cant fly.
This issue goes beyond the airforce. Such operations have to be performed by Army Aviation where it will work in close co-ordination with the Infantry or BSF. The Army Aviation pilots as I have seen in Siachen are quick to adapt and innovate and perform the task at hand while the Air force pilots usually baulk at doing anything out of the ordinary. That might seem an unfair statement, but most often than never that has been the case. IAF needs to recognize its role and Army Aviation needs to be doing these operations…Front and Center !!!!
This is the right time to send our LCH for weapon trials in those areas. Who is stopping them to fire back in thay were under fired. I think they have the permission for that.
well It is easy to speak against the IAF.but please do look from the IAF side.First they do not have sufficient number of attack helicopter and second they do not
have permission to open fire from goverment of Indian to be precise the Home Ministry.Why should the IAF loose million dollor worth of equipment and trained pilots when they have capabilities to fight back .the answer to this is that if they open fire incase they come under fire from maoist and if they kill them,this will cause political problems ie the same home minister will retract from this responsibility when the Human Rights people or opposition will force goverment to prosecute the IAF pilots stating that innocents have been killed by IAF.
IAF is making this statement only to make sure they are not made scrape goat.
Look at in case of j&K.The Indian army during an encounter always have to inform and take j&k police personnel to show as proof what they did and if prosecuted the army can produce police personnel as proof.
The great Indian Media does to try to analyse the the meaning of the news.
well It is easy to speak against the IAF.but please do look from the IAF side.First they do not have sufficient number of attack helicopter and second they do not
have permission to open fire from goverment of Indian to be precise the Home Ministry.Why should the IAF loose million dollor worth of equipment and trained pilots when they have capabilities to fight back .the answer to this is that if they open fire incase they come under fire from maoist and if they kill them,this will cause political problems ie the same home minister will retract from this responsibility when the Human Rights people or opposition will force goverment to prosecute the IAF pilots stating that innocents have been killed by IAF.
IAF is making this statement only to make sure they are not made scrape goat.
Look at in case of j&K.The Indian army during an encounter always have to inform and take j&k police personnel to show as proof what they did and if prosecuted the army can produce police personnel as proof.
The great Indian Media does to try to analyse the the meaning of the news.
IAF should not be involved in such operation ,a all. This is Law & Order and social development related problem , army or air-force should be kept away from such civil operation .for state Police and Adm officers , we should develop effective training on Army curriculum to improve to the level of army as in coming years armed militancy would be more well trained , well armed and more dedicated to their cause. Armed forces are the last institution let them remain less polluted and dedicate their services on Borders only .Mixing wit h civil issues will only dilute their.
effectiveness.
What stupid comments.
How are helicopters supposed to fire when these are on ground, landing or taking off. Why can not the CRPF or BSF or state forces sanitise a hellipads. What CI operations the thullas would do if they remain stuck to their dandas mentality only. It takes maximum a platoon to sanitise an area of 300m by 300 m. Helicopters on ground are vulnerable. Loss of one helicopter means loss of pay of ten CRPF battalions for a year or even more. Why do not the educated commenting here understand that loss of helicopters means a big victory for naxals.
Some people comment from aft.We are not Americans who can afford to loose 5000 helicopters in vietnam and loose a war.
What India need to do is monitor Maoist movements using UCAVs and launch long range ATGs from standoff ranges to completely obliterate the entire terrorist den. Show ABSOLUTELY no mercy. Wipe them out from air. And then go and get some beer. Thats enough risk for the day.
For God's sake – these fellows call themselves an armed force and are afraid to take risks in battle. They make derogatory comments on the blog under anonymous titles, when the Police and Paramilitary forces are risking their lives fighting in the jungles of Central India. It is this attitude of the IAF that has led to their losing the right to fly attack choppers to the Army. About time the Government allowed the Police to equip their units with their own helicopters and let the precious fly boys save their lives and machines for air shows and exercises (to expect them to fight would be too much).
If IAF doesnt have attack helos, then BUY ATTACK helos Damit! Use fighter jets, use ground attack bombers, tanks,artilley….. use whatever the f*** you got. Quite whining like babies! Go back and fight the damn war!
Just read B. Raman's article on rediff.com, he is suggesting decapitating strikes on terrorists inside enemy territory as the option left, and we have seen drills where Mi-17's drop commandos who drive off a jeep, and now I read here that sanitizing an evacuation zone is needed in anti-maoist operations, and I don't see a consistent picture of IAF's capability other than regular warfare.
read few news reports that helis are armoured, probably have bullet proof glass as well, so small arms fire is not a problem, the Maoists are not operating shoulder fired SAMS yet, where is the problem?
As for enough choppers, few Mi-17's were brought back from UN operations, 159 Mi-17's are bing inducted, why not account for internal operations as well by increasing those numbers? Home ministry should oblige
do these news channels need to put such irritating music in the video? its tacky and spoils the impact of what would be an otherwise interesting news piece.
any comments shiv?
Cant help but notice that most of the demands of Air force are perfectly valid. They are simply asking that if we are delivering supplies etc to a point then that point shall be properly cleansed of hostiles before drop.
In my humble opinion, its a perfectly valid request and I for one wont want an airforce who is needlessly putting its assets in path of destruction. There will be some scenarios where there will be an extraction from a live fire zone but that shall not be a regular thing.
Some of you guys see the Rambo movies too often and those have gone into your heads.
If the government starts bombing Naxals your freedom of such expression will be lost to Naxals.
UAV, standoff weapons and counter insurgency specializations shall be improved more and more. Presently helicopters shall be used only for transport and logistics etc.
IAF's problem is if there is "unacceptable" risk they dont do anything to eliminate that risk. Their response is to complain and chicken out instead of figuring out how to fullfill the mission.
US/NATO Army/AF are involved in Africa, Iraq, Afghanistan against insurgency operation. Do they complain law & order issue. Or they are only for war with enemy nation. True picture is except training on recruitment by Indian Army, they rarely do exercises or war practices forget guerrilla training. Compare their training with foreign armies.
Abbottabad raid was by Rambos eh? anyways, one chopper in that raid crashed trying to land inside the compound due to air flow issues, now watch this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPz61MWn8xw
build one such sandbag compound four times the size (5m by 7m) in the video, the compound will have door frames allowing air flow with another sandbag wall covering the entrance to the door frame about 3m away from the door frame so there is no line of sight for an armed sniper and at the same time allowing a stretcher to be brought in. Divide the Maoist area into sectors with one compound in each of the sectors. The problem is its a delicate operation with potential for tail or blade strike on the sandbag compound
and/or
two choppers can buddy pair, an LCH/attack chopper and a Mi-17, LCH can fly patrol while the Mi-17 lands, the advantage is you don't have predesignated targets for Maoists
or
Naval choppers hover over a rescue area and stretchers with casualties are pulleyed up