For the psycho in the comments section who can’t stop about how India desperately needs the MiG-31, here she is. Took these pix at MAKS 2007 in Zhukovsky.
this is real stuff and only fighter of its kind and suites perfectly for the task it is designed for
along with it’s R 37 missiles and 700 km combat radius at 2.4mach and huge radar
if we have 40 of these and fly along with su30mki it will even give severe blow to USA bomber fleet in diego garcia and and if operated from poet blair even to bomber fleet in guam forget about paki AWACS,TANKERS and orions
since china is always desperate to counter india so they always desperate to sell their AWACS ,SAM systems to pakistan even before they want these systems
mki doesn’t has sustained speed of 2.4mach because al31 engine isn’t designed for sustained afterburner flying opreation like D30 turbofan engine
if amraam fired from f 22 at speed of mach 1.7 from superior altitude gets 30% increase in range
in similar case a R 37 fired from mig31 flying at superior altitude and at mach 2.4 will get 40-45% increase in range so R37 missile with range of 300km will get 40-45% increase in range and will get range of over 400 km
In this era of network-centric warfare platform-centric systems like the MiG-31 are a relic of the past. What's required is not airborne platforms like the MiG-31, but hypersonic beyond visual range air combat missiles (like the MBDA-built Meteor or Russia's ramjet-powered extended-range R-95 or a similar LRAAM) that can receive real-time course-correction updates via secure data links from AEW & C aircraft. Furthermore, if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.
Mr Sengupta, if I recall correctly, Mig-31s were designed with the net centric architecture in mind, and can share data among themselves and also act as mini AWACS.
Surely the russkies would have kept their frontline airdefence a/c up-to-date
What’s required is not airborne platforms like the MiG-31, but hypersonic beyond visual range air combat missiles
The last time someone said that, the US Navy almost ended up with a lemon called the F-111B.
Furthermore, if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.
I hope you understand that the 123 is a *civilian* agreement.
“if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.”
Hahahaha! Nice Joke!
Wait, you were serious?
Well, if folks in the DDM keep harping about the “delayed” Light Combat Aircraft, here’s a reminder;
The FBW in the 90s was being tested on the F-16XL. An American aircraft.
Then we tested the nukes and they sent our team back without an iota of the data they had collected. And the test apparatus. Resulting in our ADA people having to go back and write software from scratch.
You mean you actually TRUST the Americans? Must be nice to live in la la land.
I have no problem with the 1-2-3 pact – but I am not naive enough to think we will never be anti-US again.
That said, I do agree that the MiG-31 is now an old lady (a bit Sophia Loren-esque, still sexy). And the radar may be powerful and all but is very poor in resolution and the cone of searching. The BARS is far more versatile and can probably do everything the Zaslon can.
Any useful form of the Foxhound will have to be heavily MKI-ed, which means a lot of cost and a long delay time. Not worth it, I think, and I’d rather put the money into more MKIs and nicer missiles.
To [email protected]: By your statements it seems you are mixing up data-linking capabilities with network-centricity. Sure the MiG-31s can share data with each other and act as mini-AEW & C (not AWACS, which is a USAF-specific abbreviation). But what about communicating with a much larger theatre-wide air defence network? You may recall that this was the reason the IAF rejected the Beriev A-50E AEW & C (the then IAF Chief in early 2000 ACM A Y Tipnis made this absolutely clear after an A-50E was subjected to a 2 week-long evaluation in Chandigarh) in favour of the PHALCON.
As for [email protected], aren't you aware of the ramjet-powered variant of the R-77 that was showcased throughout the 1990s by Vympel as the R-95? It bore a strong resemblance to Raytheon's AIM-120 FRAAM variant. Careful, don't jump to conclusions prematurely, for the devil is always in the detail; overlook it and the devil will haul your arse to hell! Do your homework first, kiddo.
To [email protected]: Assuming that I have no idea what I’m talking about and you are the walking encyclopaedia on the MiG-31, can you kindly ‘enlighten’ me by answering the following: 1) What is the export track record to date of the MiG-31? How many countries apart from Russia are flying it? 2) What is the maintenance hour per flight-hour of the MiG-31, compared to the Su-30MKI and F/A-22 Raptor? 3) What is the MTBF of the ‘UPGRADED ZASLON’ radar? 4) Why has Russia decided to dump the MiG-31 in favourt of the PAK-FA? Lastly, I agree with you on the possibility of the US becoming hostile, but have you ever considered if India can ever afford to be hostile to the US? Consider this: for all the anti-US posturing by the Ruskis regarding the Georgian issue the Russian stock markets and the Russian economy are now totally at the mercy of Wall Street. Don’t forget that the Russian basket of currencies now comprises primarily of the US$ and Euro. The Rouble has no international value and benchmarking whatsoever. The days of COMECON are long over, comrade, therefore don’t expect the Ruskies to come to your aid in case ‘the US becomes hostile’. Kapish?
As for [email protected], aren’t you aware of the ramjet-powered variant of the R-77 that was showcased throughout the 1990s by Vympel as the R-95? It bore a strong resemblance to Raytheon’s AIM-120 FRAAM variant. Careful, don’t jump to conclusions prematurely, for the devil is always in the detail; overlook it and the devil will haul your arse to hell! Do your homework first, kiddo.
dear kiddo, that project has been cancelled in 1999. and it was called R-77M, not R-95. I challenge you to show me one reliable source saying it was called the r-95. stop kidding around plagarist.
TO Anons@ 2.10AM & 2.21AM: Obviously you have not seen the Vympel PowerPoint presentation prepared in 2007 on the R-95, which I do have in my possession by the way but would not be able to upload here as it will hog unnecessary banswidth. And how would you know if that's true? Afterall, I presume you are just a 'layman who doesn't have access' to the OEMs and therefore justifies your ignorance. Ask anyone in Vympel and they will say that the R-95 project was never terminated, but remains on hold and will be revived once a foreign risk-taking R & D co-developer (i.e. financial investor) has been identified and taken on-board. But then….again you will say that since you have no direct access to such officials from Vympel you will automatically presume that I'm lying my arse off! In that case, you truly deserve the honour of being labelled as 'the psycho'!
As for discerning the difference between supersonic and hypersonic, please compare the cruise speeds of the Meteor and the so-called BrahMos-2 and try explaining why the latter is being touted as a hypersonic missile. Homework, kiddo, homework is what you need to do…
prasun is correct about the speeds of brahmos-2 and meteor. prasun, we’d love to see the vympel presentation. do upload if you can. would help your argument for sure!
prasun, as per public domain info, the brahmos-2 will fly at mach 8, while the speed noted for the MBDA Meteor is mach 4. the definition of hypersonic is any velocity above Mach 5. could you now clarify whether the Meteor is actually classified as a hypersonic missile? or were you plainly wrong? nobody here (apart from the resident “psychos”) will tear you apart for accepting you made a gaffe! the meteor is NOT a hypersonic missile. period. let’s move on now.
mig 31 is a pure intercepter from it’s heart and soul flying at superior altitude and at sustained afterburmer supersonic speed it is designed to shoot down e3 sentry,rivet joint, b1 b bomber carrying nukes,orions,tankers
it costs several million dollars less than euro and american birds and that pay off it’s operating cost (our mig29 ugrade deal 1/2 times less costlier than mirage upgrade deal tell me why)
tell me which western aircraft has such capability
russia hasn’t dumped the aircraft they have many in storage they will operate it untill 2030
russia upgraded mig 31 in 1999 and it had multirole capability and it was called mig 31bm like su 35bm and for ground attack it was equipped with 3 kab 1500kr or 6 kab 500kr guided bombs and same ground attack munitions which we use on mki
and at the same time they upgraded its older zaslon radar(detection range 0.3 meter sq at 35nm) it had twice the detection range and better ECM immunity that was 10 years ago
no country bought it because it was single purpose no country had fear of huge US bomber fleet carrying nukes on their skies except russia and no country had money at that time to buy it.
15 mig 31 cover our whole western border and they r enough to destroy paki awacs,tankers in one go with r37 missiles
i am saying this because R 172 missile not ready yet ,ramjet missiles not ready till 2012 while R 37 is in production now and they r available right away.
russian economy does’t depend on WALL STREET they r earning $1 billion a day by exporting oil to europe, irrespect of stock exchange and their economy surpassed indian economy in just 5 years which india took more than 15 years and their foreign reserves r more than $550 billion
and they have enough nukes to shatter US and it’s missile defence system they have saved iran from bush and we need iranian oil also.
we don’t need russian help in saving india
US always played india down
i said about mig31 because it’s one of it’s kind and they can be equipped with any COTS electronic AND capability even euro and american birds doesn’t provide imiidiately because our air force short of fighters
To [email protected]: Thanks for thrusting your ‘greatness’ upon me. Will be glad to ‘share’ the R-95 presentation with you as soon as you’ve signed the NCND agreement with Vympel JSC, as the materials are proprietary in nature and I too am bound by such an IPR-related agreement. Kiddo, you just can’t have have your own cake and eat it too, and that too on a silver platter. Or, just wait until Aero India’09 next year and you can contact the Vympel folks yourself at the expo (after you’ve qualified as a registered trade visitor) and ascertain from them what’s right or wrong. Or, if that’s too late for you, then you’re free to contact the Rosoboronexport State Corp office in Delhi, but either way, you will be required to ink the NCND contract. Nothing’s for free here.
sengupta, you have been caught on the meteor being hypersonic. admit you were wrong instead of clinging to something that was patently incorrect. i agree with the anon who has proved you wrong on the meteor above. no one here’s going to stick your head in the dirt for an error.
why r u bringing georgian conflict here u know it very well that georgia first attack south ossetia backed by USA in response to that russia attacked on geogia to save south ossetia
and whole western media covered the fact very well that who was agressor and blamed russia to be agressive and europe behaved like an american stooge
To [email protected] & 3.39AM: Do you honestly believe that the Astra AAM, WITHOUT integral ramjets, will have a cruise speed of Mach 4, while the Meteor, WITH ramjets, will also have a cruise speed of Mach 4? The Meteor is still in the R & D phase and final performance figures will be available only AFTER formal flight qualification certification is completed. So, kindly do not rush to any conclusions yet about the Meteor's definitive cruise speed.
As for [email protected], I must ask you if you're intersted in having a serious debate or just wondering about in the wilderness. Please don't give vague justifications like "it costs several million dollars less…" but give me specific figures. Also, does India also have to fear the prospect of nuclear weapons-carrying US bombers cruising unhindered in Indian airspace? Is this justification enough for India acquiring the MiG-31? And if I were to destroy Pakistan Air Force aircraft assets, I would rather destroy them while they are on the ground (via missiles like the BrahMos or Prithvi SS-250 or the still elusive Sagarika/ADM). That will be the most cost-effective option, instead of taking on the PAF in the air! As you rightly remarked, the Ruski economy is growing day by day but don't forget what you yourself have said: they are earning in US$ or the Euro and these two currencies constitute the overwhelming quantum of their forex reserves. Now, if one wants to impose an economic embargo on Russia, all that the US Federal Reserve and the ECB have to do is declare the Russia-held deposits of the US$ and Euro as illegal tender. That's all it takes to bring a country on its knees, and that's how economic sanctions are placed. Iran, North Korea and Syria are prime examples. Kindly refer to any financial consultant to fully explain to you what exactly are financial sanctions and how they are made to work. As for your statement on the US playing India down, I'm afraid here I beg to differ with you. But that's another story altogether.
To [email protected]: This is completely off-topic, but kindly allow me to explain to you the fundamental flaws in your argument. Firstly, even if Georgia initiated hostilities in South Ossetia or Abhkazia, you must grant Georgia the right to do so, however repugnant it may be, simply because these two provinces are still recognised by the UN as being an integral part of Georgia. Just as Russia has every right to initiate any kind of action/police it deems fit in Chechnya. As you yourself have admitted in your post, Georgia attacked S Ossetia (which is Georgian territory), while Russia attacked Georgia. Now just think about it for a moment. Is this right? If Georgia had attacked Russia then a befitting Russian counterattack against Georgia would have been totally justified in self-defence. But what is not right is Georgia initiating military action within its own sovereign territory and in return Russia goes ahead and attacks targets deep within Georgia and these areas like Gori or Tbilisi were not even disputed territory. That is why the world at large has condemned Russia for a ‘highly disproportionate’ response. That is why Russia is losing the information warfare dimension as far as this conflict goes. A far better option would have been for the Kremlin to orchestrate a peaceful referandum within the two breakaway provinces and then based on the results, recognise the two provinces as independent countries, just as the independence of Kosovo was orchestrated.
To [email protected]: Do you really want to know why “our air force short of fighters”? It boils down to several things but let me share only one of them with you: the scores of MiG-23BNs and MiG-27Ms are being grounded on an accelerated basis. And why is that so? Because there are no manufacturers left for supplying the IAF with cockpit canopy transparencies and landing gear tyres for these aircraft types. For the MiG-23BN/MiG-27M fleets, one needs to change the cockpit canopy transparencies once every nine months since they are made of a fibre-glass type known as poly-carbonate which turns yellow every nine months even if they covered with tarpaulin. However, on the MiG-21Bisons, MiG-29Ks, Su-30MKIs, Jaguar IS/IMs, Mirage 2000s and Hawk Mk132s, the cockpit transparencies are made of a material called stressed acryllic, which is far more resistant to the vagaries of the weather and have a 3-year lifespan. HAL acquired the technical know-how for manufacturing cockpit canopy transparencies built of stressed-acryllic in the early-1990s from the Lutton-based facility of the UK’s Lucas Aerospace but for reasons unknown such cockpit canopy transparencies are unavailable from HAL when it comes to the MiG-23BN and MiG-27M till today. Don’t ask me why is this so as I have no idea. Maybe that’s why the IAF is also against re-engining the MiG-27Ms with the AL-31F turbofan (as jointly proposed by HAL and NPO Saturn). By the way, the licence-production of Su-30MKI does not include the licence for producing the AL-31FP turbofans with HAL-sourced raw materials. NPO Saturn is supplying ALL the AL-31FPs off-the-shelf to HAL in completely knocked-down condition. ALL hot-section components of the turbofan are coming directly from NPO Saturn fully built-up. I hope you guys know this.
so first it was i can’t upload here as it is too big, now it is important agreements with vympel !
great going prasun, proving once again that when challenged you do anything but present facts.
result: no r-95.
btw, why would vympel show you stuff they haven’t released for public info? assuming they did show you something it wasn’t because your father in law is vympel director is it ?
if they divulge stuff there would be no reason why they won’t announce it.
we need aircraft small no around 40 aircraft immidiately which provide comprehensive coverage then what will u do none of mrca aircraft available untill 2014
even small no of mig31 provides more interception power than MRCA contenders and even mki doesn’t has such supersonic and high altitude performance and not only avionics but also kinematic performance does matter for BVR engagement
1.do u have any clarification why mirage upgrade deal costs twice the price of mig 29 upgrade deal mig 29 will have new built rd33 but not sure there will be new engine on mirage
just think how much 126 rafale or typhoon upgrade will cost us this huuuuge cost differnce pays off maintanince cost of russian aircraft
3. IAF took wrong decision in selling those capable SU 30Ks just for 9 million per aircraft there was no need to do that , we could decomission several mig21,23s and buy more su 30mki. su 30k outclasses all aircraft in iaf inventory except mki,this reduced no of fighters
3.american birds aren’t that cheap that for the price they r offering us(it is probable that they screw us for spares in future) when u look at deal between US AND those customer countries u will come to know how much costly they r typhoon price 100million rafale price 67million f 16 blk60 UAE 80million f 15 S.KOREA over 100million f18 aussie 24*f18=2.8billion so each 116 million
mig 31 50-55million and this pays off its assotiated costs
none of these western fighters r available untill 2014 and none of these F15, F16,F18 WERE AVAILABLE TO us WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT in 1976,78,82 except mirage2000 and none of these western aircraft provides the same capability as of mig31
4. future ramjet missiles can be used in mig 31 but they will not out range R 37 and future r 172 and israeli and western avionics r available to us
we need such aircraft with such long range missiles in small no sooner than MRCA
prasun u have closed u r eyes
OIL is GOLD of today russia was in much worst condition 10 years ago and it sustained it’s nuclear arsenal and itself but today it’s condition is waaaay better
whole europe depends on russian oil supplies and natural gas and by exporting oil money currency comes in
US wants iran and venezuela ‘s oil something which we also want but iran has GOLD IN its soil and any country wants that
if US has russian reserves than JAPAN AND CHINA HAS U.S CURRENCY IN thier RESERVES and russian reserves r also increasing day by day and it is not easy to isolate a country
venezuela and iran found russia as friend
u think russia was wrong to invade south ossetia
then think bush and blair invaded iraq and iraq was a sovereign territory (ALL COUNTRIES OPPOSED USA) did they find NUKES and serbian conflict also and for that these two leaders should should be boiled alive
and bush wanted to bomb iran on the same basis of NUKES despite knowing israel has NUKES as well and iran is a sovereign nation thats why russia took its favour
TO Anon at 6:12AM: If you knew what NCND stood for or what it means, then you have realised that the questions you’ve raised have already been answered by your own naive comments. Don’t expect to receive anything on a silver platter. As they say, no pain, no gain. Therefore, do incur some expenses and go to Aero India 09 next year, or depending on how desperate you are to get the required info, contact the Rosoboronexport office in Delhi to “get to the truth”.
bush invaded iraq a sovereign country where r nukes form iraq
and same allegation on iran now and what happened in vietnam a sovereign country
how can they and u blame russia on georgia any need to eapand NATO
and foreign currencies reserves r not pieces of paper(dollar or euro) it amount of gold which is reserved and something which it own value in foreign markets irrespect of currency value .
first it was TO Anons@ 2.10AM & 2.21AM: Obviously you have not seen the Vympel PowerPoint presentation prepared in 2007 on the R-95, which I do have in my possession by the way but would not be able to upload here as it will hog unnecessary banswidth.
when pointed out about free filehosting sites, it becomes
Will be glad to ‘share’ the R-95 presentation with you as soon as you’ve signed the NCND agreement with Vympel JSC, as the materials are proprietary in nature and I too am bound by such an IPR-related agreement.
I would rather destroy them while they are on the ground (via missiles like the BrahMos or Prithvi SS-250 or the still elusive Sagarika/ADM
All I can say is… Thank God you don’t make the decisions when it comes to security in this country!
Do you know what the Paki reaction will be when India shoots a long range ballistic missile towards it? It *will* be treated as a nuke and the response will be a nuclear strike on India. Get that basic fact into your head, please!
if one wants to impose an economic embargo on Russia, all that the US Federal Reserve and the ECB have to do is declare the Russia-held deposits of the US$ and Euro as illegal tender
But Russia can (and will) hit back with ferocity. European winters are very cold, they tell me. And this might just trigger off WW-III. Oirope doesn’t want that.
Firstly, even if Georgia initiated hostilities in South Ossetia or Abhkazia, you must grant Georgia the right to do so, however repugnant it may be, simply because these two provinces are still recognised by the UN as being an integral part of Georgia
While pointing out “fundamental flaws” in somebody’s argument, it is essential to not have fundamental flaws in your own argument first. 🙂
I hope you know that there were Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia and there presence was recognized by the UN. Russia will obviously retaliate if these peacekeepers are killed! Sheesh!
And if you had your way, India would have not interfered in Bangladesh either.
That is why the world at large has condemned Russia for a ‘highly disproportionate’ response.
The “world at large” (read Western Oirope and the USA) has its own agenda. There response in Yugoslavia was nothing short of “disproportionate”
From your coloured posts (including your one on Russian tank design philosophy), I must say that you look like you are furthering somebody’s agenda. JMHO
Also, does India also have to fear the prospect of nuclear weapons-carrying US bombers cruising unhindered in Indian airspace? Is this justification enough for India acquiring the MiG-31?
————————————- its not a justification
we r not going to war with US
this was to tell the capability MIG31 provides against these threats in HEAVY ECM jamming enviroment that its even capable to shoot their bombers and US will not use their 2 BILLION DOLLAR B 2 BOMBER against such aircraft in conflict
R 37 even capable of engaging BALLISTIC MISSILES
those so called MOST ADVANCED FIGHTERS OF THE WEST boast no such capability AND THESE AIRCRAFT HAVE NO DECISIVE ADVANTAGE AGAINST CHINESE FLANKERS
mki has excellent manouverability but it lacks mig 31 unmatched and excellent supersonic combat persistance which no other country IN OUR REGION BEATS
To Mihir: If you’re really convinced that the Prithvi SS-250 and BrahMos are long-range missiles then you do need to reprogramme the HD in your brain! A simple BDA examination of the targetted site will reveal very easily whether the strike was nuclear or not. In any case, the Govt of India has already declared that the BrahMos and Prithvi SS-150s and SS-250s will be armed with conventional warheads. So where’s the confusion? Do not underestimate the enemy’s intelligence. Also, take note that neither of these two missiles are ballistic. They’re CRUISE missiles. Get that into your head please!!!
Regarding the Georgian issue, if Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia were attacked, they should have hit back in self-defence and should have kept the conflict localised. What was the provocation for initiating offensive actions in Abkhazia? In any case, the UN, Russia included, never disputed the fact that both S Ossetia and Abkhazia were an integral part of Georgia. Why are you conveniently overlooking this fact? As for Bangladesh, if I were the decision-maker I would never have helped create an independent nation that has only resulted in an extra anti-India vote being cased in various international fora, be it the UN General Assembly, OIC or SAARC. The decisive phase of military operations in 1971 should have been undertaken in the western sector and even if an inconclusive outcome would have been the result, the existence of an East Pakistan post-1971 would have resulted in Pakistan’s total economic collapse within a 10-year period, which then would have given India the upper hand in decisively shaping the sub-continent’s new geo-architecture.
first give me clarification on IRAQ INVASION SO y r u blaming russia iraq invasion was opposed by all countries
ANY CLARIFICATION ON NATO EXPANSION or is there any need to do this
bangladesh seperation is better for us otherwise united pakistan that could cause much more problem and we have to face pakistani threat form two sides from east and from west
hang on. did prasun just say that the pritvhi is a cruise missile? if that ain’t the final nail in the coffin of his credibility, i don’t know what is, quite frankly.
why don’t u ask IAF officials to get their opinion on MIG 31 and R 37 missiles and their capabilities compared to fighters being considered for MRCA and SU 30MKI
and ask that will IAF would like to induct in small numbers 40 MIG 31s as soon as possible counter chinese and paki AWACS,tankers,fighters
I think given your basic lack of knowledge, a middle school debate would be a better place to exercise your didactic skills. Firstly, the Prithvi is a *ballistic* missile. I was under the impression that someone who struts about with an attitude the way you do, and snottily looks down upon us commoners for not attending presentations by Vympel, would understand this one basic fact.
Secondly, I was talking about long range ballistic missiles only, contradicting your “logic” about hitting Pakistan with long-range ballistic missiles. And guess what! The Sagarika is also a ballistic missile (not a cruise missile, as your snootylicios highness previously thought) , and it will be nuclear armed. So before bolivating about attacking Pakistan with this missile, please understand the implications of such an act.
Coming to the question of S Ossetia, it is Georgia who initiated hostilities. So when thug-in-chief Saakashvili kills civilians and Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia, he shouldn’t whine for American support when the Bear delivers a brutal mauling. It’s surprising to see you not condemning Georgia’s aggressive behaviour here. But then again, given your propensity to troubleshoot other peoples’ brains, I can imagine you not noticing the cobwebs in your own 🙂
PS: I can almost see you praising Georgian “democracy” in your next post, along with a long and out-of-context post about flaws in Rooshian tanks.
To Mihir: Ask anyone in the Indian Army and IAF and they will tell you that the SS-150 and SS-250 variants of the Prithvi are referred to as surface-to-surface missiles. From where did the term ‘ballistic’ crop up with regard to the Prithvi? And are you the Project Director for Sagarika? Because unless you are I’m not yet prepared to accept your assertion about the Sagarika being a ballistic missile as the DRDO has yet to release any photo or technical input about Sagarika. As for Georgia I don’t give a damn about being a democracy or autocracy. Nor am I praising Mikhail Shakashvilli. What you need to get inside your thick skull is that Georgia has the sovereign right to initiate any action it deems fit within its own territorial boundaries, just as Russia has the sovereign right to flatten Grozny and massacre its own citizens during botched-up operations of the type in Beslan. I may disagree with the methods adopted for combatting insurgencies in Chechnya and Beslan, but I nevertheless believe it is Russia’s right to do what it chooses as long as it is WITHIN its own territorial boundaries. The least you could do is accord Georgia that same fundamental right.
mihir you sound like you know everything from scratch yourself. cannot fathom the BS arrogance in this commenting area. you guys all of you prasun, mihir etc all talk like you are part of the programmes you are discussing. your wikipedia knowledge of development is distressing and a bore. by the by mihir, sagarika is being developed as an SLCM, it is not ballistic. fyi.
as far as i can make out, both prasun and mihir are dunderheads. the prithvi is a ballistic missile, period, prasun. stop arguing like a monkey. you’re wrong, deal with it. don’t dig yourself deeper than you already have. and mihir, you r way too cocksure old man. the sagarika is almost definitely a cruise missile, not a BM. so both of you quit behaving like (as earlier anon has suggested) these weapons are your brainchilds.
To [email protected]: Can you discern between the terms ballistic or cruise? If the Prithvi has flex nozzles and burning liquid propellant (just like the Dvina V750VK SAM) and its trajectory can be shaped/changed both in the boost-/post-booth phase, the cruise phase and the terminal phase (as per DRDO posters displayed during the past Aero India and DEFEXPO expos), how can the missile be classified as ballistic? Can you please identify for us any existing ballistic missile that has manoeuvrable trajectories in ALL phases of its flight?
this is one right royal slugfest you have going on here, shiv. good one. a refreshing change from the usual nonsense people puke out in your comments section.
To [email protected]: Arey bhai, you are the one now quoting wikipedia, so don’t accuse me as you did earlier of deriving my “knowledge inputs” from wikipedia. Kuch samjhe? And why should I believe wikipedia’s contents to be the gospel truth? Did Wikipedia develop the Prithvi? The developer of the Prithvi is DRDO and the OEM for Prithvi is Bharat Dynamics and I will be more inclined to believe them rather than wikipedia. Both the DRDO and BDL refer to the Prithvi as an SSM, and NOT as an SRBM. Kindly go to the next Aero India and DEFEXPO expos and take the trouble to get to the gospel truth. Don’t forget, no one from DRDO or BDL wrote the wikipedia portal relating to the Prithvi. So don;t be so pig-headed about the Prithvi being a SRBM. Learn to respect the laws of physics and pay attention while attending LIVEFIST’s classes in cyberspace.
To [email protected]: Mere Bhai, I'm not a correspondent for anyone. I don't need to be one. I'm just an insignificant 42-year-old lad who humbly interacts with well-meaning friends like Ajaiji & Shivji. I'm very happily settled down and am content with running my JAR-145-certified aviation MRO facility in southern Thailand. Mujhe Georgia ya Russia se koi lena-dena nahin hai. Lakin yeh zaroor kahunga: I may have closed my eyes to your point of view, but you have your eyes wide open and still can't see what's ahead of you.
To [email protected]: Any missile which relies on programmable navigational waypoints for flight trajectory shaping/course adjustments cannot be classified as a ballistic missile. Only missiles that ‘cruise’ to their targets require such waypoints, this also being the case with BrahMos. Ballistic misdsiles, in contrast, do not rely on waypoints. Their flight trajectory is PRE-PROGRAMMED prior to launch. In addition, the ballistic missile is not powered all the way to its target. The thrusters aft of the ballistic missile warheads are used for manoeuvrability only after re-entering the atmosphere. The Prithvi’s propulsion system, in contrast, is operational right up to the point when the missile’s warhead impacts the target or explodes above the target if it is an FAE-type or is carrying cluster munitions). That is the reason why the Prithvi SS-150/SS-250 are, in essence, precision-guided SSMs, especially now that they have been equipped with hybrid ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation systems whose precision is further enhanced by PY-code GPS updates (as revealed during the DEFEXPO’08 expo).
it is a ready to fire missile ! where did you pull out that bit from. liquid fuel doesn’t necessarily mean long preparation time. only it’s shelf life will be shorter. FRDO is working on AAD based solid fueled missile.
To [email protected]: That’s not ture. In the June 2008 issue of FORCE magazine, Dr V K Saraswat said in an interview that liquid propulsion was chosen as the Indian Army wanted a range fluctuation between 40km and 150km. This in turn can only be achieved by a variable total impulse that is best generated by liquid propulsion. The missile rounds will NOT be filled with liquid propellant on the battlefield. Instead, it will be done much earlier as the liquid propellant in use has a shelf-life of 10 years. Furthermore, there will be only three vehicles in a ready-to-launch configuration: launch vehicle, power supply vehicle, and the launch control centre.
The IAF refers to the Su-30MKI as an “air-dominance fighter”. It also has thrust vector controls (that’s what “flex nozzles” on aeroplanes are called). So according to your logic, it is not an “aeroplane” since the IAF doesn’t call it that. Or perhaps you just need the obvious stated to you, in which case even middle school would only serve to befuddle your tiny brain.
The Prithvi still follows a ballistic trajectory, though lift augmentation is used to enhance this trajectory. And gimbaled engine nozzles have little to do with this, genius. Several missiles which follow pure ballistic trajectories use them too. And several ballistic missiles are liquid fueled. And oh, even if we were to assume for a minute that the Prithvi is not a ballistic missile, when the f*** did it become a frikkin’ cruise missile? Please THINK before you open the vomit valve!
BTW, every defence journo worth his salt is calling the K-15 the Sagarika. So the Sagarika is very much a ballistic missile. Now, since you went about calling it a cruise missile, where is your evidence? Are you a goddam fly on Avinash Chander’s wall?
And oh… you cannot expect Russia to sit back and yawn when Georgian troops kill Russian citizens and internationally mandated peacekeepers and generally go about committing genocide in SO.
To [email protected]: Do you really want to know why “our air force short of fighters”? It boils down to several things but let me share only one of them with you: the scores of MiG-23BNs and MiG-27Ms are being grounded on an accelerated basis. And why is that so? Because there are no manufacturers left for supplying the IAF with cockpit canopy transparencies and landing gear tyres for these aircraft types. For the MiG-23BN/MiG-27M fleets, one needs to change the cockpit canopy transparencies once every nine months since they are made of a fibre-glass type known as poly-carbonate which turns yellow every nine months even if they covered with tarpaulin. However, on the MiG-21Bisons, MiG-29Ks, Su-30MKIs, Jaguar IS/IMs, Mirage 2000s and Hawk Mk132s, the cockpit transparencies are made of a material called stressed acryllic, which is far more resistant to the vagaries of the weather and have a 3-year lifespan. HAL acquired the technical know-how for manufacturing cockpit canopy transparencies built of stressed-acryllic in the early-1990s from the Lutton-based facility of the UK’s Lucas Aerospace but for reasons unknown such cockpit canopy transparencies are unavailable from HAL when it comes to the MiG-23BN and MiG-27M till today. Don’t ask me why is this so as I have no idea. Maybe that’s why the IAF is also against re-engining the MiG-27Ms with the AL-31F turbofan (as jointly proposed by HAL and NPO Saturn). By the way, the licence-production of Su-30MKI does not include the licence for producing the AL-31FP turbofans with HAL-sourced raw materials. NPO Saturn is supplying ALL the AL-31FPs off-the-shelf to HAL in completely knocked-down condition. ALL hot-section components of the turbofan are coming directly from NPO Saturn fully built-up. I hope you guys know this.
Prasun, you idiot, HAL is manufacturing the AL-31FP including the hot section.
The Phase 3 production for other MKI systems has also commenced including the Bars.
Not only are you phenomenally ignorant, you are also a trash talker and liar. I just showed your BS on canopies to a IAF man and he laughed his @rse off.
The MiG-23BNs were retired because the amount spent in time and manhours keeping them up was becoming pyrrhic, and they were no longer with Bisons and Jags having SEAD capability to supplement the MiG-27s.
You obviously have NO clue of the IAFs operational strengths and constraints, plagiarist.
Mihir, you are talking to a 42 year old, who has the chutzpah of a teenager coupled with the ego of a rocket scientist, but one who makes as much sense as a madrassa educated retard.
All in all, he and his ridiculous articles have done enough to discredit force. What galls us journos is how he gets away with it. Force is still good for interviews though, PS leverages his service well to pull some talk briefs.
To [email protected] & 3.48PM: As long as you retards and nitwits choose to remain anonymous and make claims to having access to the IAF etc without revealing them, and derive your knowledge bases from wikipedia, it is folks like you that will be discredited in the eyes of others. If you kids claim to have the info that others like me do not, then kindly reveal exactly how many MiG-23BNs are being retired, and how many AL-31FPs have been contractually ordered to date for the Su-30MKIs. Let's see what you come up with. Here's the big chance for you numbskulls to prove me wrong and discredit me once and for all. Are you men enough to rise up to the challenge? or will you continue having wet-dreams of the kind you've been having lately? Don't make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it. So, unless you numbskulls and idiots are like the earlier arsehole, here's your chance to prove your worth. Rise up to it if you have the balls.
To [email protected]: Are you blogging here to cast uncalled-for aspertions or tyring remote-MRI scanning to determine the dimensions of one's brain? It is obvious you've not seen even a single DRDO-issued diagram showing the Prithvi's flight trajectory that have been showcased in successive Aero india & DEFEXPO expos since 2001. So why do you force your ignorance upon my shoulders as the gospel truth? regarding the Sagarika, do you have any visual confirmation of the missile being either ballistic or cruise? I don't care what other so-called journos say but if you do have access then kindly kindly walk into DRDO HQ or the ASL facility, both of which have scale models proudly displayed in their respective visotors' gallery asnd you will be able to see for yourself what exactly the Sagarika looks like. You don't have to enter the illustrious Avinash Chander's office as a 'fly' to find out what Sagarika is. Regarding Georgia versus Russia, you have been maintaining a mysterious silence regarding Abkhazia. Why don't you address that issue as well in fairness? And as the world knows now, Georgian troops were killing their own citizens in S Ossetia, and these Georgian citizerns of Slavic descent also had Russia-issued passports, which were NOT internationally recognised except by Russia. I agree what Georgia did there was inexcusable ethnic cleansing, and not genocide, which is exactly what the Ruskies did in Chechnya. So who out of the two has the higher moral ground? But coming back to Abkhazia, don't conveniently forget this province. And oh…do visit the DRDO HQ in Delhi and ASL facility, for the truth about Sagarika is out there.
Don’t make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it.
dear dumbhead I had thought I would let this issue to rest but apparently you don't know when to stop. yes I made a mistake about the article.
>>YOU HAD LIFTED AN ARTICLE BY WEBMASTER IAF SITE OF BR RUPAK CHATTOPADHYAY ON THE IAF'S MIG-27 MODERNIZATION FOR THE ASIAN DEFENCE JOURNAL. (NOT FORCE AS I FIRST THOUGHT) this is the article. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ MONITOR/ISSUE2-6/rupak.html this plagarism was brought to the notice of ADJ editors following which you were DROPPED from their contributor list.
>>Again, you had used two images of the ALH taken by BR Space/Missile Site webmaster Arun Sharma as cover photos for an aero india 2003 article for force. when the BR people contacted Ms Ghazala Wahab with threats of a legal lawsuit, then editor in some capacity of force, force dropped the images from it's site.
>>you had lifted an article on the akula verbatim from global security for an article for force is well known.
>> you had also used sea king images taken by B Harry of acig.org as your own. these were also taken down by force.
I have in fact found out that the only thing that saved force and prasun sengupta from legal hassles is the fact that the forum had at that time quoted some of force's articles in full, (with due credit obviously) and which were taken down by the BRF moderators as soon as it was discovered. Force claimed even that violated copyrights and agreed not to press charges if the plagarism charges against prasun was withdrawn.
Meaning that prasun sengupta the plagarist went scot-free only on a technicality, not because he was not guilty.
Prasun, you have made a very big mistake this time by challenging me. From now on, each and every article of yours is going to be archived and each one of those little copy pastes are going to splashed over the blogs. and if you stop that, you will also have to stop defence journalism, because you don't know what honest journalism is.
and don't try to elevate yourself by association with shiv or ajai. ajai is a far far better journo than you ever will be and shiv, for all his faults was never a thief like you.
To [email protected]: Just as I had expected, you too are blowing hot air without going into specifics or providing any conclusive proof. And how could you? You couldn’t find any!!! And what is this ‘defence journalism’ you’re talking about? Do you have any idea what it is all about? I’ve never claimed to be any kind of journalist and my business card does not say I’m one. Nor am I a national security journalist or an international security/relations journalist. Journalism is journalism, moron, and it doesn’t have any flavour. Get that inside your thick skull! I repeat again, produce the weblinks of articles written by me and containing my byline in any of the publications you’ve identified above. As my reputation always precedes me, you should have had these links or printed copies of all these publications by now to reinforce your point, unless you are financially bankrupt. If you can’t then just bugger off!!! And if you can’t do so, then reveal your identity and stand up to be accounted for. Don’t hide behind the veil of anonymity. I too want to know who I’ve challenged. And what’s happening about the numbers I asked you before regarding the MiG-23BN and AL-31FP? Still don’t have a confirmed appointment with your ‘source’ at IAF HQ? Alas…how could you, for you’re just a layman relying on third-person inputs for something on someone from somewhere. Looks like you lost your balls long ago!
I wasn’t discussing about mig-23 etc with you. I don’t have time to waste on that.
you know very well that I have already mentioned the “conclusive proofs” as any semi-educated person could see. I knew you would just hop around pretending they don’t exist. please carry on.
and btw, Congrats ! You have finally admitted that you are not a journalist but a Plagarist !
To [email protected]: What you have been doing so far is wasting your time by needlessly indulging in an extreme form of compulsive hostility against me! When confronted, you don’t have the balls to even reveal your identity. ‘Napunsak’ must therefore be your first name, for you are evidently unable to produce specifics when pushed into a corner. By the way, do secure an appointment with a psychiatrist prior to meeting your ‘IAF source’ later today. You definitely need to do this to arrest your regressive attitude.
To the ‘Napunsak’@1.45AM: All you have made thus far are ill-founded claims. You are eminently qualified to don the esteemed mantle of LIVEFIST’s Illustrious Resident Psycho, since you are too scared to reveal your true identity. But in this digital era for how long can you reamin untraced? Within a week you will be made to surface in flesh-and-blood. Enjoy your last days as the famed Napunsak, who refused to rise to Prasun’s challenge, numbskull!
To The [email protected]: Who’s scared of whom? Who’s refusing to reveal his/her identity? What legal charges and by whom and for what? I’ve been camping in Chennai for the past two days. Bring ’em on. I’m hot on your heels!
TO [email protected]: What do think I’ve been doing for the past two days? But the other party does not want to oblige me! I never asked for any clarifications from anyone. I wanted facts in numbers and digits but looks like even that is not within reach of those numbskulls! That’s the gospel truth and you too better digest it. Khamokha mujhse panga na lena. May cost you dearly.
To [email protected] & 4.24AM: Angrezi samajhte ho kya? I never threatened you, but warned you. The numbers and digits I'm refering to are the number of MiG-23BNs being retired and the total number of AL-31FPs on order for the Su-30MKI fleet. Where are the answers in numbers and digits? I don't want any clarification from you. Just the numbers and digits.
To [email protected]: Toh woh aap ho. Are yaar if only everyone only used their true identities instead of all being anonymous. Aaj kal behut anon logo se pangga lena padta hai naa, isi liye it gets very confusing. OK, here goes. 1) Regarding costs the figures you are referring to for both the MiG-29 and Mirage 2000 upgrades pertain to the capital procurement costs. Yes, in this category the Russians are cheaper. But when you are calculating total life-cycle costs, i.e. the cost of maintaining the Russian aircraft in serviceable and airworthy condition, the costs are way higher than those for aircraft of Western origin. Let me give you an example: the total technical service life of a turbofan from the US or Europe is almost 6,000 hours, while that of the RD-33-3 or even the AL-31FP is 2,000 hours. Therefore, while the ratio of Western spare turbofans per airframe is 1: 1.2, that for Russian aircraft is 1:6. That means during the entire lifespan of 1 Su-30MKI (20 years) for example, you will require 12 turbofans to keep the aircraft airworthy. In contrast, for a Mirage 2000, you will need only two turbofans for the 20-year period. It is for this reason that the IAF is placing emphasis NOT on the initial capital procurement costs, but on the total life-cycle costs. 2) I agree with you that procuring the Rafales or EF-2000 Typhoons will cost much more. Therefore I personally believe that the turbofan that is eventually selected to power the Tejas LCA will also be powering the to-be-selected M-MRCA. Let me explain further. If the GE F414 is selected for the Tejas LCA, then the two finalists for the M-MRCA competition will be the JAS-39IN Gripen and F/A-18 Super Hornet. If the Eurojet EJ-200 is selected, then the EF-2000 Typhoon will become more attractive. If the SNECMA M-88-3 is selected for the Tejas, then suddently the Rafale will become the favourite. At the end of the day it is all about economy of scale. The more engines you order, the greater the manufacturer’s willingness to share key restricted technologies. Therefore, buying 40 or even 60 MiG-31s doesn’t make much sense as the total life-cycle costs will be very high (as I explained above). And as you are aware, the Russians are no longer engaging in Rupee-Rouble currency transactions, they’ve also stopped asking for US$. They are now charging only in Euros, which makes the capital procurement costs and total life-cycle costs for Russia-built hardware unaffordable. Happy now? Have a great day ahead of you.
which makes the capital procurement costs and total life-cycle costs for Russia-built hardware unaffordable ———————————— acco. to this
then IAF is stupid in buying more su 30mki and they r also stupid in license production of these sukhois
new varients of al31 engines also have 6000 hrs of service life for su 35bm and they r on offer
this is for the first time we r changing mig29’s engines in 20 years and no engine change has been confirmed for mirage2000 upgrading.and donot compare mirage and sukhoi.
why french asking roughly $ 1 billion more for new avionics,MICAs guided munitions ,no new engines or just for the way in which thier industry works,mig29 will also have new avionics,guided munitions and new engines
rd 33-3 is more than match in thrust and price compared to present m88-2 ,ej 2000 and future m88-3
rd33-3 costs us only bit over $ 2 million each we paid $ 250 million for 120 rd 33-3 engines
we bought mig 29k for just $ 30 million+$ 15 million for support and maintaince per aircraft
i give u an example-
australia bought 24 f18 super hornets for 2.8 billion bucks
so each costs $ 116 milion
they paid $ 10 billion for 10 years for support and maintainance of 24 f 18 so acc to this $ 416 millions for one aircraft for 10 years of support and maintainance
if we have 126 f18 this support and maintainance cost for 10 years will be over 50 billion dolars and throughout 40 years of life 200 billion dollars and even if u reduce its cost because of the larger number of cost it will still be upwards of 160 billion dollars
and if u have 126 rafales,typhoons and f 18 no wonder they will cost u upto 200 billion dollars for lifecycle costs excluding their upgrading costs,since rafales and typhoons have higher per aircraft cost,also f18 no less prone to embargo
mig 35 offered to us $ 40million
and these aircraft have higher costs per aircraft ,cost of upgrading is twice the costly ,their support and maintainance costs sky rocketing and these aircraft have no decisive advantage against MIG 35
and these aircraft have no such capability like r 37 long range missiles
To [email protected] & 3.48PM: As long as you retards and nitwits choose to remain anonymous and make claims to having access to the IAF etc without revealing them, and derive your knowledge bases from wikipedia, it is folks like you that will be discredited in the eyes of others. If you kids claim to have the info that others like me do not, then kindly reveal exactly how many MiG-23BNs are being retired, and how many AL-31FPs have been contractually ordered to date for the Su-30MKIs. Let's see what you come up with. Here's the big chance for you numbskulls to prove me wrong and discredit me once and for all. Are you men enough to rise up to the challenge? or will you continue having wet-dreams of the kind you've been having lately? Don't make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it. So, unless you numbskulls and idiots are like the earlier arsehole, here's your chance to prove your worth. Rise up to it if you have the balls.
Prasun you dumb fuck, if you push us, tujhe sab ke saamne expose kar denge hum log.
Idiot, 920 AL-31FPs have been ordered by IAF. And FULL TOT is part of the deal, as recent as 5 months back, HAL Koraput had a public display of the entire engine program.
You dumb moron, sitting out of Thailand, plagiarizing other people honest work, and scratching your balls like a dog have ZERO idea of truth and reality.
You are shameless arsehole and total plagiarist. If you dont keep your mouth shut, then all the evidence will start appearing on another blogspot site which will make sure you become the laugh of century.
>>YOU HAD LIFTED AN ARTICLE BY WEBMASTER IAF SITE OF BR RUPAK CHATTOPADHYAY ON THE IAF'S MIG-27 MODERNIZATION FOR THE ASIAN DEFENCE JOURNAL. (NOT FORCE AS I FIRST THOUGHT) this is the article. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ MONITOR/ISSUE2-6/rupak.html this plagarism was brought to the notice of ADJ editors following which you were DROPPED from their contributor list.
this complete and total arsehole prasun sengupta had that same article reprinted in Vayu magazine.
when it was available at delhi, phoned up the chaps who ran vayu and they said this shameless chutiya sent them the entire article as his own
word to word copy yaar by this besharam behaya insaan
rupak has suffered 2 times due to this arsehole prasun. this is article which appeared word to word in vayu magazine. meri to bolti bandh ho gayi, ki saala yeh aadmi kitna ajeeb hain he rip off rupak totally and not even one word change yaar
You are shameless arsehole and total plagiarist. If you dont keep your mouth shut, then all the evidence will start appearing on another blogspot site which will make sure you become the laugh of century.
Actually, this is a good idea. Setting up a dedicated blog to track Prasuns BS will be awesome. We already have lots, including his Taiwan Ramjet BS, LRDE BS, WLR AESA BS, T-90 WITH MERK TURRET BS, so much BS that it is enough to meet India energy needs as gobar gas, he has lied so much it is easy to document it.
To All My Fans: I'm highly gratified by all your ceaseless and tireless efforts to maintain a never-ending vigil over ALL my stories, whether from the past or in the future. As you are all aware, I've been flooded with requests for starting my own blog but you dear fans could definitely solve that problem for me by setting up own very own blog that monitors ALL my stories/articles/editorial contributions. I will most definitely be thankful for any kind of beneficial exposure that you may accord me and my exploits. Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest. Time and time again I've asked you all to provide proof of your allegations but EVERY time you arseholes have backed off. So who is the Harami, Besharam and behaya now? Kutto ki tarah bhaukte ho. Kaatna jante who kya? Now, coming to the issue of AL-31FPs. According to the ‘Deep Licence’ given to HAL, ALL AL-31FP turbofans will be assembled in Koraput after they've arrived from Russia is fully knocked-down condition. NPO Saturn/UFA under a ToT agreement have trained HAL personnel to assemble th engines. That's the ToT, moron, ask anyone from NPO Saturn at the next Aero India expo for a second opinion if you morons don't believe me. So stop scratching your balls (if you have them) and step out into the open & learn to INTERACT DIRECTLY with the OEMs! The final figure of 920 AL-31FPs you've given pertains to the 140 Su-30MKIs ordered, not for the total envisaged fleet of Su-30MKIs (which is 140 + 50 + 40). And FYI the total number of MiG-23BNs being retired is 123.
To Anon@841PM: Abey haramzade, kahaa hai tera naya Blog with ALL my articles” Don’t make me wait too long. Behut buri tarah se maroge. Nikamme napunsako jaisa chupe mat raho. Arsehole, the total number of AL-31FPs on order is 1,511, not 920. Learn to do your Math!!!
Abe chutiye Prasun, Now, coming to the issue of AL-31FPs. According to the ‘Deep Licence’ given to HAL, ALL AL-31FP turbofans will be assembled in Koraput after they've arrived from Russia is fully knocked-down condition. NPO Saturn/UFA under a ToT agreement have trained HAL personnel to assemble th engines. That's the ToT, moron, ask anyone from NPO Saturn at the next Aero India expo for a second opinion if you morons don't believe me. So stop scratching your balls (if you have them) and step out into the open & learn to INTERACT DIRECTLY with the OEMs!
you bhadua liar, I am a HALite and HAL is producing those AL-31 FPs from RAW MATERIAL stage.
you are complete ass and disgrace to this blog
running like dog in front of HAL ppl begging for info is not “interacting with OEM” it only show you are two bit johnny from prostitute capital of world, thailand
ARRE BOSS LEAVE THIS PRASUN IDIOT IN OTHER DISCUSSION SOME R&D GUY KICKED HIS BUTT FOR LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH ON RADARS AND NOW HERE HE IS BULLSHITTING AGAIN
The Engine Division at Koraput, a unit of HAL's vast network, has the unique distinction of being one amongst the few Aero Engine manufacturers in the world.
The spectrum of manufacturing facilities extends literally from the production of nuts and bolts to discs, shafts, blades, forgings and castings – all that are required to make an Aero Engine right from the Raw materials.
This spectrum is further enlarged to include overhaul of Aero Engines for the MiG family and supply of spares required during service.
AL-31 FP engine
AL-31FP is a high temperature turbojet by-pass engine of modular design. A specific feature of AL-31FP is an axi-symmetric vectoring nozzle with a thrust vector angle of ±15° in the vertical plane providing super maneuverability of the aircraft. The vectoring nozzle control is integrated with the engine control system. AL-31FP engines ensure stable operation in all available evolutions of the aircraft in super maneuverability modes. AL-31FP engines power advanced multi-purpose Su-30 MKI fighters of the 4+ generation
Under the “deep licence” agreement signed with Russia, Sukhoi has provided technology to HAL for manufacturing the powerful Al-31FP engines used in the Su-30MKI, considered one of the world’s most versatile multi-role combat aircraft.
BUT MOST IMPORTANT, RUSSIANS THEMSELVES TALKING OF HOW PRASUN SENGUPTA IS LYING
How soon will India be able to fully indigenise production of AL-31 engines?
YL: India has past experience in building both Russian and Western engines, and possesses a rich assortment of requisite technologies that will enable Indian specialists to manufacture AL-31 engines indigenously. India is currently setting a dedicated AL-31 production line. Fully indigenous production can be possible during Phase II-III of the contract, i.e. around the year 2010.
IDIOT PRASUN SENGUPTA PROVEN WRONG AGAIN IN FRONT OF ALL LIVEFIST READERS
ENJOY
NOW FOOL WILL CLAIM PRODUCTION WAS SPEEDED UP SO LICENSE WAS CANCELLED
IDIOT SEE LAST KANWA ISSUE ON MKI PRODUCTION IT SAYS ONLY HYDRAULIC COMPONENTS MAY BE IMPORTED TO SAVE COSTS BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IN INDIA
PRASUN STOP LYING AND GO BACK TO WRITING FOR FORCE
Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest.
THIS IS VERY EASY PRASUN IN FEB 2007 FORCE MAGAZINE YOU WROTE
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state. When used in the ‘silent attack’ mode, an adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by N-011M radar that is outside BVR-AAM range. He may not be aware that another, closer Su-30MKI is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a BVR-AAM launch without using its own radar. The N-011M can also operate in an all-passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). In addition, two N-011Ms can exchange information by the TIDLS and locate hostile targets by triangulation. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The TIDLS also allows the N-011Ms to share plots, not just tracks even if none of the Su-30MKIs in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively. Each radar plot includes pulse-Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. Using TIDLS, two Su-30MKIs can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, thereby minimising the need for radar transmission. In electronic warfare (EW) applications, one Su-30MKI can track and engage a target while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the N-011M. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the N-011M that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique already validated by the IAF is for all four N-011M radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies. Come 2009, the Su-30MKI, by then being equipped with the ‘Irbis’ active phased-array radar will be transformed into a dedicated information warfare platform with a redesigned rear cockpit housing a communications-cum-EW specialist. The IAF’s overarching mission is to achieve information dominance and ensure that friendly assets have the best information possible while destroying or jamming the enemy’s information resources.
YOU ARE SUCH SHAMELESS PLAGIARIST FIRST IRBIS IS NOT ACTIVE PHASED ARRAY RADAR BUT PASSIVE
SECOND LET US ALL GO AND SEE WHERE YOU COPIED ABOVE IMPRESSIVE SOUNDING TEXT FROM
GRIPEN LION OF THE SKY, BY BILL SWEETMAN, JOURNAL OF ELECTRONIC DEFENSE
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state. The TIDLS is fundamentally different from broadcast-style links like Link 16. It serves fewer users but links them more closely together, exchanging much more data, and operating much closer to real time.
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.
Today, Sweden is the only country that is flying with a link of this kind, and will retain that status until the F-22 enters service. The Flygvapnet has already proven some of the tactical advantages of the link, including the ability to spread the formation over a much wider area. Visual contact between the fighters is no longer necessary, because the datalink shows the position of each aircraft. Leader and wingman roles are different: the pilot in the best position makes the attack, and the fact that he has targeted the enemy is immediately communicated to the three other aircraft.
A basic use of the datalink is “silent attack.” An adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by a fighter radar that is outside missile range. He may not be aware that another, closer fighter is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a missile launch without using its own radar. After launch, the shooter can break and escape, while the other fighter continues to pass tracking data to the missile. In tests, Gripen pilots have learned that this makes it possible to delay using the AMRAAM’s active seeker until it is too late for the target to respond.
But the use of the link goes beyond this, towards what the Swedish Air Force calls “samverkan,” or close-cooperation. One example is the use of the Ericsson PS-05/A radar with TIDLS. An Ericsson paper compares its application, with identical sensors and precise knowledge of the location of both platforms, to human twins: “Communication is possible without explaining everything.”
“Radar-samverkan,” the Ericsson paper suggests, equips the formation with a super-radar of extraordinary capabilities. The PS-05/A can operate in passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). Two PS-05/As can exchange information by datalink and locate the target by triangulation. The target’s signals will often identify it as well.
The datalink results in better tracking. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The datalink allows the radars to share plots, not just tracks, so even if none of the aircraft in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively.
Each radar plot includes Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. However, this data on its own does not yield the velocity of the target. Using the TIDLS, two fighters can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, reducing the need for radar transmission.
In ECM applications, one fighter can search, while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the radar. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the radar that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique is for all four radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies.
ANYONE CAN MAKE OUT YOU HAVE COPIED THE ABOVE TEXT, CHANGED ONLY SLIGHTLY AND USED IT IN MKI ARTICLE
Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest.
THIS IS VERY EASY PRASUN IN FEB 2007 FORCE MAGAZINE YOU WROTE
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state. When used in the ‘silent attack’ mode, an adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by N-011M radar that is outside BVR-AAM range. He may not be aware that another, closer Su-30MKI is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a BVR-AAM launch without using its own radar. The N-011M can also operate in an all-passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). In addition, two N-011Ms can exchange information by the TIDLS and locate hostile targets by triangulation. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The TIDLS also allows the N-011Ms to share plots, not just tracks even if none of the Su-30MKIs in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively. Each radar plot includes pulse-Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. Using TIDLS, two Su-30MKIs can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, thereby minimising the need for radar transmission. In electronic warfare (EW) applications, one Su-30MKI can track and engage a target while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the N-011M. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the N-011M that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique already validated by the IAF is for all four N-011M radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies. Come 2009, the Su-30MKI, by then being equipped with the ‘Irbis’ active phased-array radar will be transformed into a dedicated information warfare platform with a redesigned rear cockpit housing a communications-cum-EW specialist. The IAF’s overarching mission is to achieve information dominance and ensure that friendly assets have the best information possible while destroying or jamming the enemy’s information resources.
YOU ARE SUCH SHAMELESS PLAGIARIST FIRST IRBIS IS NOT ACTIVE PHASED ARRAY RADAR BUT PASSIVE
SECOND LET US ALL GO AND SEE WHERE YOU COPIED ABOVE IMPRESSIVE SOUNDING TEXT FROM
GRIPEN LION OF THE SKY, BY BILL SWEETMAN, JOURNAL OF ELECTRONIC DEFENSE
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state. The TIDLS is fundamentally different from broadcast-style links like Link 16. It serves fewer users but links them more closely together, exchanging much more data, and operating much closer to real time.
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.
Today, Sweden is the only country that is flying with a link of this kind, and will retain that status until the F-22 enters service. The Flygvapnet has already proven some of the tactical advantages of the link, including the ability to spread the formation over a much wider area. Visual contact between the fighters is no longer necessary, because the datalink shows the position of each aircraft. Leader and wingman roles are different: the pilot in the best position makes the attack, and the fact that he has targeted the enemy is immediately communicated to the three other aircraft.
A basic use of the datalink is “silent attack.” An adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by a fighter radar that is outside missile range. He may not be aware that another, closer fighter is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a missile launch without using its own radar. After launch, the shooter can break and escape, while the other fighter continues to pass tracking data to the missile. In tests, Gripen pilots have learned that this makes it possible to delay using the AMRAAM’s active seeker until it is too late for the target to respond.
But the use of the link goes beyond this, towards what the Swedish Air Force calls “samverkan,” or close-cooperation. One example is the use of the Ericsson PS-05/A radar with TIDLS. An Ericsson paper compares its application, with identical sensors and precise knowledge of the location of both platforms, to human twins: “Communication is possible without explaining everything.”
“Radar-samverkan,” the Ericsson paper suggests, equips the formation with a super-radar of extraordinary capabilities. The PS-05/A can operate in passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). Two PS-05/As can exchange information by datalink and locate the target by triangulation. The target’s signals will often identify it as well.
The datalink results in better tracking. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The datalink allows the radars to share plots, not just tracks, so even if none of the aircraft in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively.
Each radar plot includes Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. However, this data on its own does not yield the velocity of the target. Using the TIDLS, two fighters can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, reducing the need for radar transmission.
In ECM applications, one fighter can search, while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the radar. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the radar that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique is for all four radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies.
ANYONE CAN MAKE OUT YOU HAVE COPIED THE ABOVE TEXT, CHANGED ONLY SLIGHTLY AND USED IT IN MKI ARTICLE
I have seen what the Prithvi’s trajectory looks like and I know exactly what the IA and IAF call it. And I know for a fact that it can be best classified but a ballistic missile, enhanced trajectory notwithstanding. As I said earlier, if you need the obvious stated to you, you are punching waaaay above your weight here. Perhaps you will acquire a bigger fan following if you posted on pakdef.
How about putting up some pictures of the scale models of the Sagarika? Why don’t you “reveal the truth”? As someone so fond of throwing challenges, I suppose you have no issues accepting one from time to time 🙂
Oh wait! Is the Sagarika a cruise missile in much the same way that the Prithvi is? In that case, we fundamentally agree on the technical details, except that you appear to be muddled up in the upper stories.
How about putting up some pictures of the scale models of the Sagarika? Why don’t you “reveal the truth”? As someone so fond of throwing challenges, I suppose you have no issues accepting one from time to time 🙂
He cant, because he is a bloody joke. People in DRDO laugh at Force magazine thanks to this fool and his articles. At least Sawheny has some good contacts to get decent interviews, otherwise Force would be truly Farce!
WRT war in the Caucasus, I hope you understand that Russia was attacked by Georgia.
Lets repeat that one more time, just so that the smoke in your brain doesn’t filter it out.
*Russia was attacked by Georgia.*
And Russia will retaliate – at a time and place of its choosing, whether it is in S Ossetia or Abkhazia. That’s Strategy and Tactics 101. Now Georgia has to face the consequences. If Saakashvili was so chenchitive, he shouldn’t have initiated hostilities in the first place. Not that I expect you to understand stuff like “Logic” and “facts”.
ISRAEL .georgia ,whole europe,australia,s.korea,japan are riding on america’s dick and america has bought sakaashvilli for $ 1 billion and US enlarging NATO uselessly and missile defence system
these nato and aussies,s koreans,japanese do only those things which USA like otherwise they hav not even independent thinking what they think about world senerios against US
hey buddy indian politicians r gay and some of them only support themselves not india and thats y western countries made use many of international policies against india
and in dis world u hava to have a powerful friend and u hav to support friend that friend supports india otherwise u r alone in dis world look how NATO countries r one
*************************** BREAKING NEWS *************************** IT HAS JUST BEEN CONFIRMED BY SOURCES THAT PRASUN SENGUPTA aka PRASUN THE PLAGARIST’S PARENTS KNEW THAT THEIR SON WAS GOING TO BE A PLAGARIST, WHICH IS WHY THEY CHOSE THE NAME ‘PRASUN’, FOR ALLITERATION EFFECT !
prasun has run off. he said aroor was making fun of him. imagine, aroor making fun of prasun. this is like …. a frog talking shit about a toad. all our fun is over but bhaiyyo or arooro, poor chap really got slapped for his lies
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state.
Compare with…
Bill Sweetman: “Gripen: Lion of the Sky”
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state.
This, along with his copy-paste of Rupak’s article in Tempur, pretty much lays all doubts to rest, doesn’t it?
Sengupta needs to stick to what he knows instead of blathering on about the Georgian conflict which he knows absolutely nothing about. I have the following comments/questions:
1. Abkhazia and South Ossetia were never politically integrated into Georgia even when Georgia “came into existence” as a country back in 1991. To carry on this useless pretence of Georgia having some sort of value to integrity wrt to these areas is idiotic.
2. The invasion of South Ossetia by Israeli and American trained Georgian troops had been okayed by the CIA and Pentagon who in their idiocy expected Russia not to respond (or in an effort to shift the discussion to foreign policy and therefore McCain’s strong suit actually expected it). People in both the McCain and Obama campaigns were briefed three weeks before the event. It is pathetic to complain now- having attacked while peace talks between the two sides were were going on and killing not only South Ossetian troops but also Russian troops. To complain when the Russian Bear takes a bear sized crap on the Georgians is to indicate you know little.
3. What does Prasun Sengupta know about internal Georgian “democracy” and how much that actually exists under Shakaashvilli? It’s going be a while before Georgian “democracy” looks anything like democracy in Sweden.
4. How much does Sengupta get from his CIA puppeteers? Rs 10 per day I figure? Cuz that’s about what the value of his crap political commentary is.
Hahaha Like every one in Delhi the psychos are just wondering what to do about TacNukes – The Zazlon is an Awacs-size radar almost!! My crackpot solution is to liberalise the Pak Visa regime unilaterally ( and build an AIIMS in OKara !)
An AWACS that flies at nearly Mach 3 and shoots long range missiles. Perfect battlefield support against TacNukes – the only problem being that the transmitting Zazslon radar is a beacon visible to every ground controller 1000 km away. Plus its a far from elegant solution like a SAM.
LOL
Nice ans dude ! I don’t think India would venture for ne’more Russian thrash !
this is real stuff and only fighter of its kind and suites perfectly for the task it is designed for
along with it’s
R 37 missiles and 700 km combat radius at 2.4mach and huge radar
if we have 40 of these and fly along with su30mki it will even give severe blow to USA bomber fleet
in diego garcia and and if operated from poet blair even to bomber fleet in guam forget about
paki AWACS,TANKERS and orions
it will pay bach the money we will spend on them
to mister shiv aroor
there is no fault of mine but i said this because
since china
is always desperate to counter india
so they always desperate to sell their AWACS ,SAM systems to pakistan even before they want these systems
thats why we need 40 of these desperately
mki doesn’t has sustained speed of 2.4mach because al31 engine isn’t designed for sustained afterburner flying opreation like D30 turbofan
engine
if amraam fired from f 22 at speed of
mach 1.7 from superior altitude gets 30% increase in range
in similar case a R 37 fired from mig31 flying at superior altitude and at mach 2.4 will get
40-45% increase in range so R37
missile
with range of 300km will get 40-45% increase in range and will get range of over 400 km
somebody deport this guy to siberia.
In this era of network-centric warfare platform-centric systems like the MiG-31 are a relic of the past. What's required is not airborne platforms like the MiG-31, but hypersonic beyond visual range air combat missiles (like the MBDA-built Meteor or Russia's ramjet-powered extended-range R-95 or a similar LRAAM) that can receive real-time course-correction updates via secure data links from AEW & C aircraft.
Furthermore, if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected
on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.
Mr Sengupta, if I recall correctly, Mig-31s were designed with the net centric architecture in mind, and can share data among themselves and also act as mini AWACS.
Surely the russkies would have kept their frontline airdefence a/c up-to-date
sengupta, pray what is hypersonic about meteor ?
and what the f*** is ER r-95 ?
ha ! you are caught out with your BS this time !
What’s required is not airborne platforms like the MiG-31, but hypersonic beyond visual range air combat missiles
The last time someone said that, the US Navy almost ended up with a lemon called the F-111B.
Furthermore, if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected
on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.
I hope you understand that the 123 is a *civilian* agreement.
“if India enthusiastically inks 123 Agreements with the US on one hand, it can hardly be expected
on the other hand to plan for future air war scenarios in which the IAF will be required to knock-out of action platforms like the F/A-22, B-1B or B-2.”
Hahahaha! Nice Joke!
Wait, you were serious?
Well, if folks in the DDM keep harping about the “delayed” Light Combat Aircraft, here’s a reminder;
The FBW in the 90s was being tested on the F-16XL. An American aircraft.
Then we tested the nukes and they sent our team back without an iota of the data they had collected. And the test apparatus. Resulting in our ADA people having to go back and write software from scratch.
You mean you actually TRUST the Americans? Must be nice to live in la la land.
I have no problem with the 1-2-3 pact – but I am not naive enough to think we will never be anti-US again.
That said, I do agree that the MiG-31 is now an old lady (a bit Sophia Loren-esque, still sexy). And the radar may be powerful and all but is very poor in resolution and the cone of searching. The BARS is far more versatile and can probably do everything the Zaslon can.
Any useful form of the Foxhound will have to be heavily MKI-ed, which means a lot of cost and a long delay time. Not worth it, I think, and I’d rather put the money into more MKIs and nicer missiles.
To [email protected]: By your statements it seems you are mixing up data-linking capabilities with network-centricity. Sure the MiG-31s can share data with each other and act as mini-AEW & C (not AWACS, which is a USAF-specific abbreviation). But what about communicating with a much larger theatre-wide air defence network? You may recall that this was the reason the IAF rejected the Beriev A-50E AEW & C (the then IAF Chief in early 2000 ACM A Y Tipnis made this absolutely clear after an A-50E was subjected to a 2 week-long evaluation in Chandigarh) in favour of the PHALCON.
As for [email protected], aren't you aware of the ramjet-powered variant of the R-77 that was showcased throughout the 1990s by Vympel as the R-95? It bore a strong resemblance to Raytheon's AIM-120 FRAAM variant. Careful, don't jump to conclusions prematurely, for the devil is always in the detail; overlook it and the devil will haul your arse to hell! Do your homework first, kiddo.
to MR PRASUN K SENGUPTA
mig 31 was the FIRST AIRCRAFT TO HAVE NET CENT CAPABILITY.
u have no idiea u r talking about
mig31 isn’t old and any military analyst will tell u about what capabilities it has
F 15,16,18, B 1 BOMBERS ARE OLDER THAN MIG 31
mig 29,su27 ,mig 31 r of same time
it’s kinematic advantage is unmatched at mach 2.4 even F 22 does’t come near
mig 31 was the first aircraft to have data link no other aircraft had such capability in 1983
it’s R 37 MISSILES OUTCLESSES meteour,future ramjet missiles
AND NO RAMJET MISSILES ARE HYPER SONIC
DO NOT BLAME radar system it can be upgraded at any time and it is no constraint for mig 31 because
it’s can house
twice the size of AESA RADAR compared to TYPHOON,RAFALE,F18,MIG 35
and 1/3 size BIGGER RADAR than f 22,f 15,su27
it even beats mki in supersonic envelop and some avionics can be put into mig 31
its current UPGRADED ZASLON radar has twice the detection range than previous zaslan
upgraded radar detects fighter size target at 170nm and capable of engaging them at 150nm which is out matched
no other aircraft has such capability we r considering now
u never know when US become hostile
To [email protected]: Assuming that I have no idea what I’m talking about and you are the walking encyclopaedia on the MiG-31, can you kindly ‘enlighten’ me by answering the following:
1) What is the export track record to date of the MiG-31? How many countries apart from Russia are flying it?
2) What is the maintenance hour per flight-hour of the MiG-31, compared to the Su-30MKI and F/A-22 Raptor?
3) What is the MTBF of the ‘UPGRADED ZASLON’ radar?
4) Why has Russia decided to dump the MiG-31 in favourt of the PAK-FA?
Lastly, I agree with you on the possibility of the US becoming hostile, but have you ever considered if India can ever afford to be hostile to the US? Consider this: for all the anti-US posturing by the Ruskis regarding the Georgian issue the Russian stock markets and the Russian economy are now totally at the mercy of Wall Street. Don’t forget that the Russian basket of currencies now comprises primarily of the US$ and Euro. The Rouble has no international value and benchmarking whatsoever. The days of COMECON are long over, comrade, therefore don’t expect the Ruskies to come to your aid in case ‘the US becomes hostile’. Kapish?
To [email protected]: Just out of curiosity, are you the entity that Shri Shiv Aroorji so lovingly and unreservedly refers to as ‘the psycho’?
As for [email protected], aren’t you aware of the ramjet-powered variant of the R-77 that was showcased throughout the 1990s by Vympel as the R-95? It bore a strong resemblance to Raytheon’s AIM-120 FRAAM variant. Careful, don’t jump to conclusions prematurely, for the devil is always in the detail; overlook it and the devil will haul your arse to hell! Do your homework first, kiddo.
dear kiddo, that project has been cancelled in 1999. and it was called R-77M, not R-95.
I challenge you to show me one reliable source saying it was called the r-95.
stop kidding around plagarist.
actually it was K-77M, not R-77M which would have been the in-service designation.
also dear kiddo, you haven’t answered how the meteor is a hypersonic missile.
To [email protected]: Just out of curiosity, are you the entity that Shri Shiv Aroorji so lovingly and unreservedly refers to as ‘the psycho’?
yes, newly arrived from a siberian gulag !
TO Anons@ 2.10AM & 2.21AM: Obviously you have not seen the Vympel PowerPoint presentation prepared in 2007 on the R-95, which I do have in my possession by the way but would not be able to upload here as it will hog unnecessary banswidth. And how would you know if that's true? Afterall, I presume you are just a 'layman who doesn't have access' to the OEMs and therefore justifies your ignorance. Ask anyone in Vympel and they will say that the R-95 project was never terminated, but remains on hold and will be revived once a foreign risk-taking R & D co-developer (i.e. financial investor) has been identified and taken on-board. But then….again you will say that since you have no direct access to such officials from Vympel you will automatically presume that I'm lying my arse off! In that case, you truly deserve the honour of being labelled as 'the psycho'!
As for discerning the difference between supersonic and hypersonic, please compare the cruise speeds of the Meteor and the so-called BrahMos-2 and try explaining why the latter is being touted as a hypersonic missile. Homework, kiddo, homework is what you need to do…
just to be sure, i use the word psycho both negatively and positively! 🙂
mundane issues like bandwidth preventing the great prasun.
use rapidshare kiddo !
shiv, how’s your fever ?
prasun is correct about the speeds of brahmos-2 and meteor. prasun, we’d love to see the vympel presentation. do upload if you can. would help your argument for sure!
prasun, as per public domain info, the brahmos-2 will fly at mach 8, while the speed noted for the MBDA Meteor is mach 4. the definition of hypersonic is any velocity above Mach 5. could you now clarify whether the Meteor is actually classified as a hypersonic missile? or were you plainly wrong? nobody here (apart from the resident “psychos”) will tear you apart for accepting you made a gaffe! the meteor is NOT a hypersonic missile. period. let’s move on now.
to prasun
mig 31 is a pure intercepter from it’s heart and soul flying at superior altitude and at sustained afterburmer supersonic speed
it is designed to shoot down
e3 sentry,rivet joint, b1 b bomber carrying nukes,orions,tankers
it costs several million dollars less than
euro and american birds and that pay off it’s operating cost
(our mig29 ugrade deal 1/2 times less costlier than mirage upgrade deal tell me why)
tell me which western aircraft has such capability
russia hasn’t dumped the aircraft they have many in storage they will operate it untill 2030
russia upgraded mig 31 in 1999 and it had multirole capability and it was called mig 31bm like
su 35bm and for ground attack it was equipped with 3 kab 1500kr
or 6 kab 500kr guided bombs
and same ground attack munitions which we use on mki
and at the same time they upgraded its older zaslon radar(detection range 0.3 meter sq at 35nm) it had twice the detection range and better ECM immunity that was 10 years ago
no country bought it because it was single purpose no country had fear of huge US bomber fleet carrying nukes on their skies except russia and no country had money at that time to buy it.
15 mig 31 cover our whole western border and they r enough to destroy paki awacs,tankers in one go with r37 missiles
i am saying this because R 172 missile not ready yet ,ramjet missiles not ready
till 2012 while R 37 is in production now and they r available right away.
russian economy does’t depend on WALL STREET they r earning
$1 billion a day by exporting oil to europe, irrespect of stock exchange and their economy surpassed indian economy in just 5 years which india took more than 15 years and their foreign reserves r more than $550 billion
and they have enough nukes to shatter US and it’s missile defence system
they have saved iran from bush and we need iranian oil also.
we don’t need russian help in saving india
US always played india down
i said about mig31 because it’s one of it’s kind and they can be equipped with any COTS electronic AND capability even euro and american birds doesn’t provide
imiidiately because our air force short of fighters
To [email protected]: Thanks for thrusting your ‘greatness’ upon me. Will be glad to ‘share’ the R-95 presentation with you as soon as you’ve signed the NCND agreement with Vympel JSC, as the materials are proprietary in nature and I too am bound by such an IPR-related agreement. Kiddo, you just can’t have have your own cake and eat it too, and that too on a silver platter. Or, just wait until Aero India’09 next year and you can contact the Vympel folks yourself at the expo (after you’ve qualified as a registered trade visitor) and ascertain from them what’s right or wrong. Or, if that’s too late for you, then you’re free to contact the Rosoboronexport State Corp office in Delhi, but either way, you will be required to ink the NCND contract. Nothing’s for free here.
sengupta, you have been caught on the meteor being hypersonic. admit you were wrong instead of clinging to something that was patently incorrect. i agree with the anon who has proved you wrong on the meteor above. no one here’s going to stick your head in the dirt for an error.
PRASUN K SENGUPTA
u r news correspondent and u tell people truth
why r u bringing georgian conflict
here u know it very well that georgia first attack south ossetia backed by USA
in response to that russia attacked on geogia to save south ossetia
and whole western media covered the fact very well that who was agressor and blamed russia to be agressive and europe behaved like an american stooge
To [email protected] & 3.39AM: Do you honestly believe that the Astra AAM, WITHOUT integral ramjets, will have a cruise speed of Mach 4, while the Meteor, WITH ramjets, will also have a cruise speed of Mach 4? The Meteor is still in the R & D phase and final performance figures will be available only AFTER formal flight qualification certification is completed. So, kindly do not rush to any conclusions yet about the Meteor's definitive cruise speed.
As for [email protected], I must ask you if you're intersted in having a serious debate or just wondering about in the wilderness. Please don't give vague justifications like "it costs several million dollars less…" but give me specific figures. Also, does India also have to fear the prospect of nuclear weapons-carrying US bombers cruising unhindered in Indian airspace? Is this justification enough for India acquiring the MiG-31? And if I were to destroy Pakistan Air Force aircraft assets, I would rather destroy them while they are on the ground (via missiles like the BrahMos or Prithvi SS-250 or the still elusive Sagarika/ADM). That will be the most cost-effective option, instead of taking on the PAF in the air!
As you rightly remarked, the Ruski economy is growing day by day but don't forget what you yourself have said: they are earning in US$ or the Euro and these two currencies constitute the overwhelming quantum of their forex reserves. Now, if one wants to impose an economic embargo on Russia, all that the US Federal Reserve and the ECB have to do is declare the Russia-held deposits of the US$ and Euro as illegal tender. That's all it takes to bring a country on its knees, and that's how economic sanctions are placed. Iran, North Korea and Syria are prime examples. Kindly refer to any financial consultant to fully explain to you what exactly are financial sanctions and how they are made to work. As for your statement on the US playing India down, I'm afraid here I beg to differ with you. But that's another story altogether.
To [email protected]: This is completely off-topic, but kindly allow me to explain to you the fundamental flaws in your argument. Firstly, even if Georgia initiated hostilities in South Ossetia or Abhkazia, you must grant Georgia the right to do so, however repugnant it may be, simply because these two provinces are still recognised by the UN as being an integral part of Georgia. Just as Russia has every right to initiate any kind of action/police it deems fit in Chechnya. As you yourself have admitted in your post, Georgia attacked S Ossetia (which is Georgian territory), while Russia attacked Georgia. Now just think about it for a moment. Is this right? If Georgia had attacked Russia then a befitting Russian counterattack against Georgia would have been totally justified in self-defence. But what is not right is Georgia initiating military action within its own sovereign territory and in return Russia goes ahead and attacks targets deep within Georgia and these areas like Gori or Tbilisi were not even disputed territory. That is why the world at large has condemned Russia for a ‘highly disproportionate’ response. That is why Russia is losing the information warfare dimension as far as this conflict goes. A far better option would have been for the Kremlin to orchestrate a peaceful referandum within the two breakaway provinces and then based on the results, recognise the two provinces as independent countries, just as the independence of Kosovo was orchestrated.
To [email protected]: Do you really want to know why “our air force short of fighters”? It boils down to several things but let me share only one of them with you: the scores of MiG-23BNs and MiG-27Ms are being grounded on an accelerated basis. And why is that so? Because there are no manufacturers left for supplying the IAF with cockpit canopy transparencies and landing gear tyres for these aircraft types. For the MiG-23BN/MiG-27M fleets, one needs to change the cockpit canopy transparencies once every nine months since they are made of a fibre-glass type known as poly-carbonate which turns yellow every nine months even if they covered with tarpaulin. However, on the MiG-21Bisons, MiG-29Ks, Su-30MKIs, Jaguar IS/IMs, Mirage 2000s and Hawk Mk132s, the cockpit transparencies are made of a material called stressed acryllic, which is far more resistant to the vagaries of the weather and have a 3-year lifespan. HAL acquired the technical know-how for manufacturing cockpit canopy transparencies built of stressed-acryllic in the early-1990s from the Lutton-based facility of the UK’s Lucas Aerospace but for reasons unknown such cockpit canopy transparencies are unavailable from HAL when it comes to the MiG-23BN and MiG-27M till today. Don’t ask me why is this so as I have no idea. Maybe that’s why the IAF is also against re-engining the MiG-27Ms with the AL-31F turbofan (as jointly proposed by HAL and NPO Saturn). By the way, the licence-production of Su-30MKI does not include the licence for producing the AL-31FP turbofans with HAL-sourced raw materials. NPO Saturn is supplying ALL the AL-31FPs off-the-shelf to HAL in completely knocked-down condition. ALL hot-section components of the turbofan are coming directly from NPO Saturn fully built-up. I hope you guys know this.
so first it was i can’t upload here as it is too big, now it is important agreements with vympel !
great going prasun, proving once again that when challenged you do anything but present facts.
result: no r-95.
btw, why would vympel show you stuff they haven’t released for public info?
assuming they did show you something it wasn’t because your father in law is vympel director is it ?
if they divulge stuff there would be no reason why they won’t announce it.
YOU ARE LYING ! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS R-95
to prasun
my point about mig 31 was that
we need aircraft small no around 40 aircraft immidiately which provide comprehensive coverage then what will u do none of mrca aircraft available untill 2014
even small no of mig31 provides more interception power than MRCA contenders and even mki doesn’t has such supersonic and high altitude performance and not only avionics but also kinematic performance does matter for BVR engagement
1.do u have any clarification why mirage upgrade deal costs twice the price of mig 29 upgrade deal
mig 29 will have new built rd33
but not sure there will be new engine on mirage
just think how much 126 rafale or typhoon upgrade will cost us this huuuuge cost differnce pays off maintanince cost of russian aircraft
3. IAF took wrong decision in selling those capable SU 30Ks just for 9 million per aircraft there was no need to do that , we could decomission several mig21,23s and buy more su 30mki.
su 30k outclasses all aircraft in iaf inventory except mki,this reduced no of fighters
3.american birds aren’t that cheap that for the price they r offering us(it is probable that they screw us for spares in future)
when u look at deal between US AND those customer countries u will come to know how much
costly they r
typhoon price 100million
rafale price 67million
f 16 blk60 UAE 80million
f 15 S.KOREA over 100million
f18 aussie 24*f18=2.8billion so each 116 million
mig 31 50-55million and this pays off its assotiated costs
none of these western fighters r available untill 2014 and none of these F15,
F16,F18 WERE AVAILABLE TO us WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT in 1976,78,82
except mirage2000 and none of these
western aircraft provides the same capability as of mig31
4. future ramjet missiles can be used in mig 31 but they will not out range R 37 and future r 172 and israeli and western avionics r available to us
we need such aircraft with such long range missiles in small no sooner than MRCA
prasun u have closed u r eyes
OIL is GOLD of today
russia was in much worst condition 10 years ago and it sustained it’s nuclear arsenal and itself but today it’s condition is waaaay better
whole europe depends on russian oil supplies and natural gas and by exporting
oil money currency comes in
US wants iran and venezuela ‘s oil something which we also want but iran has GOLD IN its soil and any country wants that
if US has russian reserves than JAPAN AND
CHINA HAS U.S CURRENCY IN thier RESERVES and russian reserves r also increasing day by day and it is not easy to isolate a country
venezuela and iran found russia as friend
u think russia was wrong to invade south ossetia
then think bush and blair invaded iraq and iraq was a sovereign territory (ALL COUNTRIES OPPOSED USA) did they find NUKES and serbian conflict also and for that these two leaders should should be boiled alive
and bush wanted to bomb iran on the same basis of NUKES despite knowing israel has NUKES as well and iran is a sovereign nation thats why russia took its favour
TO Anon at 6:12AM: If you knew what NCND stood for or what it means, then you have realised that the questions you’ve raised have already been answered by your own naive comments. Don’t expect to receive anything on a silver platter. As they say, no pain, no gain. Therefore, do incur some expenses and go to Aero India 09 next year, or depending on how desperate you are to get the required info, contact the Rosoboronexport office in Delhi to “get to the truth”.
Mr sengupta get this into ur mind
iraq and iran are sovereign countries
bush invaded iraq a sovereign country
where r nukes form iraq
and same allegation on iran now
and what happened in vietnam a sovereign country
how can they and u blame russia on georgia any need to eapand NATO
and foreign currencies reserves r not pieces of paper(dollar or euro) it amount of gold which is reserved and something which it own value in foreign markets irrespect of currency value .
first it was
TO Anons@ 2.10AM & 2.21AM: Obviously you have not seen the Vympel PowerPoint presentation prepared in 2007 on the R-95, which I do have in my possession by the way but would not be able to upload here as it will hog unnecessary banswidth.
when pointed out about free filehosting sites, it becomes
Will be glad to ‘share’ the R-95 presentation with you as soon as you’ve signed the NCND agreement with Vympel JSC, as the materials are proprietary in nature and I too am bound by such an IPR-related agreement.
just realized it did ya ?
shamefaced liar.
stop jumping around to hide your lies sengupta, you have been caught with your pants down. admit it.
even if R 95 ramjet missile exists
it will not be available untill 2015
ramjet propulsion is used to sustain missile’s speed which decreases as the missile approaches it’s target
I would rather destroy them while they are on the ground (via missiles like the BrahMos or Prithvi SS-250 or the still elusive Sagarika/ADM
All I can say is… Thank God you don’t make the decisions when it comes to security in this country!
Do you know what the Paki reaction will be when India shoots a long range ballistic missile towards it? It *will* be treated as a nuke and the response will be a nuclear strike on India. Get that basic fact into your head, please!
if one wants to impose an economic embargo on Russia, all that the US Federal Reserve and the ECB have to do is declare the Russia-held deposits of the US$ and Euro as illegal tender
But Russia can (and will) hit back with ferocity. European winters are very cold, they tell me. And this might just trigger off WW-III. Oirope doesn’t want that.
Firstly, even if Georgia initiated hostilities in South Ossetia or Abhkazia, you must grant Georgia the right to do so, however repugnant it may be, simply because these two provinces are still recognised by the UN as being an integral part of Georgia
While pointing out “fundamental flaws” in somebody’s argument, it is essential to not have fundamental flaws in your own argument first. 🙂
I hope you know that there were Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia and there presence was recognized by the UN. Russia will obviously retaliate if these peacekeepers are killed! Sheesh!
And if you had your way, India would have not interfered in Bangladesh either.
That is why the world at large has condemned Russia for a ‘highly disproportionate’ response.
The “world at large” (read Western Oirope and the USA) has its own agenda. There response in Yugoslavia was nothing short of “disproportionate”
From your coloured posts (including your one on Russian tank design philosophy), I must say that you look like you are furthering somebody’s agenda. JMHO
to sengupta
Also, does India also have to fear the prospect of nuclear weapons-carrying US bombers cruising unhindered in Indian airspace? Is this justification enough for India acquiring the MiG-31?
————————————-
its not a justification
we r not going to war with US
this was to tell the capability MIG31 provides against these threats in HEAVY ECM jamming enviroment that its even capable to shoot their bombers and US will not use their 2 BILLION DOLLAR
B 2 BOMBER against such aircraft in conflict
R 37 even capable of engaging BALLISTIC MISSILES
those so called MOST ADVANCED FIGHTERS OF THE WEST boast no such capability AND THESE AIRCRAFT HAVE NO DECISIVE ADVANTAGE AGAINST CHINESE FLANKERS
mki has excellent manouverability
but it lacks mig 31 unmatched and excellent supersonic combat persistance which no other country IN OUR REGION BEATS
but on the other MIG 31 LACKS MANOUVERABILITY
mig31 is availablr sooner than MRCA
To Mihir: If you’re really convinced that the Prithvi SS-250 and BrahMos are long-range missiles then you do need to reprogramme the HD in your brain! A simple BDA examination of the targetted site will reveal very easily whether the strike was nuclear or not. In any case, the Govt of India has already declared that the BrahMos and Prithvi SS-150s and SS-250s will be armed with conventional warheads. So where’s the confusion? Do not underestimate the enemy’s intelligence. Also, take note that neither of these two missiles are ballistic. They’re CRUISE missiles. Get that into your head please!!!
Regarding the Georgian issue, if Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia were attacked, they should have hit back in self-defence and should have kept the conflict localised. What was the provocation for initiating offensive actions in Abkhazia? In any case, the UN, Russia included, never disputed the fact that both S Ossetia and Abkhazia were an integral part of Georgia. Why are you conveniently overlooking this fact?
As for Bangladesh, if I were the decision-maker I would never have helped create an independent nation that has only resulted in an extra anti-India vote being cased in various international fora, be it the UN General Assembly, OIC or SAARC. The decisive phase of military operations in 1971 should have been undertaken in the western sector and even if an inconclusive outcome would have been the result, the existence of an East Pakistan post-1971 would have resulted in Pakistan’s total economic collapse within a 10-year period, which then would have given India the upper hand in decisively shaping the sub-continent’s new geo-architecture.
SENGUPTA U R OUT OF YOUR MIND
russia wants multipolar world
first give me clarification on IRAQ
INVASION SO y r u blaming russia
iraq invasion was opposed by all countries
ANY CLARIFICATION ON NATO EXPANSION
or is there any need to do this
bangladesh seperation is better for us otherwise united pakistan that could cause much more problem and we have to face pakistani threat form two sides from east and from west
hang on. did prasun just say that the pritvhi is a cruise missile? if that ain’t the final nail in the coffin of his credibility, i don’t know what is, quite frankly.
hey prasun ,shiv aroor
why don’t u ask IAF officials to get their opinion on MIG 31 and R 37 missiles and their capabilities compared to fighters being considered for MRCA and SU 30MKI
and ask that will IAF would like to induct in small numbers 40 MIG 31s as soon as possible counter chinese and paki AWACS,tankers,fighters
I WILL HIGHLY APPRETIATE THAT
Dear Prasun,
I think given your basic lack of knowledge, a middle school debate would be a better place to exercise your didactic skills. Firstly, the Prithvi is a *ballistic* missile. I was under the impression that someone who struts about with an attitude the way you do, and snottily looks down upon us commoners for not attending presentations by Vympel, would understand this one basic fact.
Secondly, I was talking about long range ballistic missiles only, contradicting your “logic” about hitting Pakistan with long-range ballistic missiles. And guess what! The Sagarika is also a ballistic missile (not a cruise missile, as your snootylicios highness previously thought) , and it will be nuclear armed. So before bolivating about attacking Pakistan with this missile, please understand the implications of such an act.
Coming to the question of S Ossetia, it is Georgia who initiated hostilities. So when thug-in-chief Saakashvili kills civilians and Russian peacekeepers in S Ossetia, he shouldn’t whine for American support when the Bear delivers a brutal mauling. It’s surprising to see you not condemning Georgia’s aggressive behaviour here. But then again, given your propensity to troubleshoot other peoples’ brains, I can imagine you not noticing the cobwebs in your own 🙂
PS: I can almost see you praising Georgian “democracy” in your next post, along with a long and out-of-context post about flaws in Rooshian tanks.
To Mihir: Ask anyone in the Indian Army and IAF and they will tell you that the SS-150 and SS-250 variants of the Prithvi are referred to as surface-to-surface missiles. From where did the term ‘ballistic’ crop up with regard to the Prithvi? And are you the Project Director for Sagarika? Because unless you are I’m not yet prepared to accept your assertion about the Sagarika being a ballistic missile as the DRDO has yet to release any photo or technical input about Sagarika. As for Georgia I don’t give a damn about being a democracy or autocracy. Nor am I praising Mikhail Shakashvilli. What you need to get inside your thick skull is that Georgia has the sovereign right to initiate any action it deems fit within its own territorial boundaries, just as Russia has the sovereign right to flatten Grozny and massacre its own citizens during botched-up operations of the type in Beslan. I may disagree with the methods adopted for combatting insurgencies in Chechnya and Beslan, but I nevertheless believe it is Russia’s right to do what it chooses as long as it is WITHIN its own territorial boundaries. The least you could do is accord Georgia that same fundamental right.
mihir you sound like you know everything from scratch yourself. cannot fathom the BS arrogance in this commenting area. you guys all of you prasun, mihir etc all talk like you are part of the programmes you are discussing. your wikipedia knowledge of development is distressing and a bore. by the by mihir, sagarika is being developed as an SLCM, it is not ballistic. fyi.
parallel discussions about missile technology and the politics of russia’s internal wars. magnificent.
as far as i can make out, both prasun and mihir are dunderheads. the prithvi is a ballistic missile, period, prasun. stop arguing like a monkey. you’re wrong, deal with it. don’t dig yourself deeper than you already have. and mihir, you r way too cocksure old man. the sagarika is almost definitely a cruise missile, not a BM. so both of you quit behaving like (as earlier anon has suggested) these weapons are your brainchilds.
To [email protected]: Can you discern between the terms ballistic or cruise? If the Prithvi has flex nozzles and burning liquid propellant (just like the Dvina V750VK SAM) and its trajectory can be shaped/changed both in the boost-/post-booth phase, the cruise phase and the terminal phase (as per DRDO posters displayed during the past Aero India and DEFEXPO expos), how can the missile be classified as ballistic? Can you please identify for us any existing ballistic missile that has manoeuvrable trajectories in ALL phases of its flight?
to mihir
u r right
SENGUPTA despite being a correspondent he can’t see reality
AND BEHAVING LIKE AMERICA’S PSYCHO
sengupta is OUT OF HIS MIND and he can’t see reality that why he is not critisizing real cause of conflict GEORGIA,AMERICA
WESTERN MEDIA CRITICESED ONLY RUSSIA BUT THEY NEVER SHOWED THAT GEORGIA ATTACKED SOUTH OSSETIA
AMERICA THROWS MONEY TO BUY LEADERS LIKE SHAKAASVILLI ANd poorer eastern block countries
it seems SENGUPTA has closed his eyes
PAKISTAN’S DISINTEGRATION WAS AND IS BEST FOR INDIA
prasun, since you’re being so pigheaded, here’s what the internet says about the prithvi:
wikipedia: tactical surface-to-surface, short-range ballistic missile (SRBM).
this is one right royal slugfest you have going on here, shiv. good one. a refreshing change from the usual nonsense people puke out in your comments section.
To [email protected]: Arey bhai, you are the one now quoting wikipedia, so don’t accuse me as you did earlier of deriving my “knowledge inputs” from wikipedia. Kuch samjhe? And why should I believe wikipedia’s contents to be the gospel truth? Did Wikipedia develop the Prithvi? The developer of the Prithvi is DRDO and the OEM for Prithvi is Bharat Dynamics and I will be more inclined to believe them rather than wikipedia. Both the DRDO and BDL refer to the Prithvi as an SSM, and NOT as an SRBM. Kindly go to the next Aero India and DEFEXPO expos and take the trouble to get to the gospel truth. Don’t forget, no one from DRDO or BDL wrote the wikipedia portal relating to the Prithvi. So don;t be so pig-headed about the Prithvi being a SRBM. Learn to respect the laws of physics and pay attention while attending LIVEFIST’s classes in cyberspace.
but prasun, you have called the prithvi a cruise missile. surely it is not a cruise missile for gods sake.
To [email protected]: Mere Bhai, I'm not a correspondent for anyone. I don't need to be one. I'm just an insignificant 42-year-old lad who humbly interacts with well-meaning friends like Ajaiji & Shivji. I'm very happily settled down and am content with running my JAR-145-certified aviation MRO facility in southern Thailand. Mujhe Georgia ya Russia se koi lena-dena nahin hai. Lakin yeh zaroor kahunga: I may have closed my eyes to your point of view, but you have your eyes wide open and still can't see what's ahead of you.
To [email protected]: Any missile which relies on programmable navigational waypoints for flight trajectory shaping/course adjustments cannot be classified as a ballistic missile. Only missiles that ‘cruise’ to their targets require such waypoints, this also being the case with BrahMos. Ballistic misdsiles, in contrast, do not rely on waypoints. Their flight trajectory is PRE-PROGRAMMED prior to launch. In addition, the ballistic missile is not powered all the way to its target. The thrusters aft of the ballistic missile warheads are used for manoeuvrability only after re-entering the atmosphere. The Prithvi’s propulsion system, in contrast, is operational right up to the point when the missile’s warhead impacts the target or explodes above the target if it is an FAE-type or is carrying cluster munitions). That is the reason why the Prithvi SS-150/SS-250 are, in essence, precision-guided SSMs, especially now that they have been equipped with hybrid ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation systems whose precision is further enhanced by PY-code GPS updates (as revealed during the DEFEXPO’08 expo).
but prithvi still not a ready to fire missile and is a liquid fuel missile
we need some short range solid fuel missiles
it is a ready to fire missile ! where did you pull out that bit from.
liquid fuel doesn’t necessarily mean long preparation time.
only it’s shelf life will be shorter.
FRDO is working on AAD based solid fueled missile.
To [email protected]: That’s not ture. In the June 2008 issue of FORCE magazine, Dr V K Saraswat said in an interview that liquid propulsion was chosen as the Indian Army wanted a range fluctuation between 40km and 150km. This in turn can only be achieved by a variable total impulse that is best generated by liquid propulsion. The missile rounds will NOT be filled with liquid propellant on the battlefield. Instead, it will be done much earlier as the liquid propellant in use has a shelf-life of 10 years. Furthermore, there will be only three vehicles in a ready-to-launch configuration: launch vehicle, power supply vehicle, and the launch control centre.
Dear Prasun,
The IAF refers to the Su-30MKI as an “air-dominance fighter”. It also has thrust vector controls (that’s what “flex nozzles” on aeroplanes are called). So according to your logic, it is not an “aeroplane” since the IAF doesn’t call it that. Or perhaps you just need the obvious stated to you, in which case even middle school would only serve to befuddle your tiny brain.
The Prithvi still follows a ballistic trajectory, though lift augmentation is used to enhance this trajectory. And gimbaled engine nozzles have little to do with this, genius. Several missiles which follow pure ballistic trajectories use them too. And several ballistic missiles are liquid fueled. And oh, even if we were to assume for a minute that the Prithvi is not a ballistic missile, when the f*** did it become a frikkin’ cruise missile? Please THINK before you open the vomit valve!
BTW, every defence journo worth his salt is calling the K-15 the Sagarika. So the Sagarika is very much a ballistic missile. Now, since you went about calling it a cruise missile, where is your evidence? Are you a goddam fly on Avinash Chander’s wall?
And oh… you cannot expect Russia to sit back and yawn when Georgian troops kill Russian citizens and internationally mandated peacekeepers and generally go about committing genocide in SO.
To [email protected]: Do you really want to know why “our air force short of fighters”? It boils down to several things but let me share only one of them with you: the scores of MiG-23BNs and MiG-27Ms are being grounded on an accelerated basis. And why is that so? Because there are no manufacturers left for supplying the IAF with cockpit canopy transparencies and landing gear tyres for these aircraft types. For the MiG-23BN/MiG-27M fleets, one needs to change the cockpit canopy transparencies once every nine months since they are made of a fibre-glass type known as poly-carbonate which turns yellow every nine months even if they covered with tarpaulin. However, on the MiG-21Bisons, MiG-29Ks, Su-30MKIs, Jaguar IS/IMs, Mirage 2000s and Hawk Mk132s, the cockpit transparencies are made of a material called stressed acryllic, which is far more resistant to the vagaries of the weather and have a 3-year lifespan. HAL acquired the technical know-how for manufacturing cockpit canopy transparencies built of stressed-acryllic in the early-1990s from the Lutton-based facility of the UK’s Lucas Aerospace but for reasons unknown such cockpit canopy transparencies are unavailable from HAL when it comes to the MiG-23BN and MiG-27M till today. Don’t ask me why is this so as I have no idea. Maybe that’s why the IAF is also against re-engining the MiG-27Ms with the AL-31F turbofan (as jointly proposed by HAL and NPO Saturn). By the way, the licence-production of Su-30MKI does not include the licence for producing the AL-31FP turbofans with HAL-sourced raw materials. NPO Saturn is supplying ALL the AL-31FPs off-the-shelf to HAL in completely knocked-down condition. ALL hot-section components of the turbofan are coming directly from NPO Saturn fully built-up. I hope you guys know this.
Prasun, you idiot, HAL is manufacturing the AL-31FP including the hot section.
The Phase 3 production for other MKI systems has also commenced including the Bars.
Not only are you phenomenally ignorant, you are also a trash talker and liar. I just showed your BS on canopies to a IAF man and he laughed his @rse off.
The MiG-23BNs were retired because the amount spent in time and manhours keeping them up was becoming pyrrhic, and they were no longer with Bisons and Jags having SEAD capability to supplement the MiG-27s.
You obviously have NO clue of the IAFs operational strengths and constraints, plagiarist.
Mihir, you are talking to a 42 year old, who has the chutzpah of a teenager coupled with the ego of a rocket scientist, but one who makes as much sense as a madrassa educated retard.
All in all, he and his ridiculous articles have done enough to discredit force. What galls us journos is how he gets away with it. Force is still good for interviews though, PS leverages his service well to pull some talk briefs.
Man, Aroor you spoilt that beautiful pic!
Where did you get your dressing sense from? Rajni films?
Black pavement class shirt, pink hotpants, LOL!!
those are not hotpants, you retard.
To [email protected] & 3.48PM: As long as you retards and nitwits choose to remain anonymous and make claims to having access to the IAF etc without revealing them, and derive your knowledge bases from wikipedia, it is folks like you that will be discredited in the eyes of others. If you kids claim to have the info that others like me do not, then kindly reveal exactly how many MiG-23BNs are being retired, and how many AL-31FPs have been contractually ordered to date for the Su-30MKIs. Let's see what you come up with. Here's the big chance for you numbskulls to prove me wrong and discredit me once and for all. Are you men enough to rise up to the challenge? or will you continue having wet-dreams of the kind you've been having lately? Don't make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it. So, unless you numbskulls and idiots are like the earlier arsehole, here's your chance to prove your worth. Rise up to it if you have the balls.
To [email protected]: Are you blogging here to cast uncalled-for aspertions or tyring remote-MRI scanning to determine the dimensions of one's brain? It is obvious you've not seen even a single DRDO-issued diagram showing the Prithvi's flight trajectory that have been showcased in successive Aero india & DEFEXPO expos since 2001. So why do you force your ignorance upon my shoulders as the gospel truth? regarding the Sagarika, do you have any visual confirmation of the missile being either ballistic or cruise? I don't care what other so-called journos say but if you do have access then kindly kindly walk into DRDO HQ or the ASL facility, both of which have scale models proudly displayed in their respective visotors' gallery asnd you will be able to see for yourself what exactly the Sagarika looks like. You don't have to enter the illustrious Avinash Chander's office as a 'fly' to find out what Sagarika is.
Regarding Georgia versus Russia, you have been maintaining a mysterious silence regarding Abkhazia. Why don't you address that issue as well in fairness? And as the world knows now, Georgian troops were killing their own citizens in S Ossetia, and these Georgian citizerns of Slavic descent also had Russia-issued passports, which were NOT internationally recognised except by Russia. I agree what Georgia did there was inexcusable ethnic cleansing, and not genocide, which is exactly what the Ruskies did in Chechnya. So who out of the two has the higher moral ground? But coming back to Abkhazia, don't conveniently forget this province. And oh…do visit the DRDO HQ in Delhi and ASL facility, for the truth about Sagarika is out there.
Don’t make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it.
dear dumbhead I had thought I would let this issue to rest but apparently you don't know when to stop.
yes I made a mistake about the article.
>>YOU HAD LIFTED AN ARTICLE BY WEBMASTER IAF SITE OF BR RUPAK CHATTOPADHYAY ON THE IAF'S MIG-27 MODERNIZATION FOR THE ASIAN DEFENCE JOURNAL. (NOT FORCE AS I FIRST THOUGHT)
this is the article.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/
MONITOR/ISSUE2-6/rupak.html
this plagarism was brought to the notice of ADJ editors following which you were DROPPED from their contributor list.
>>Again, you had used two images of the ALH taken by BR Space/Missile Site webmaster Arun Sharma as cover photos for an aero india 2003 article for force.
when the BR people contacted Ms Ghazala Wahab with threats of a legal lawsuit, then editor in some capacity of force, force dropped the images from it's site.
>>you had lifted an article on the akula verbatim from global security for an article for force is well known.
>> you had also used sea king images taken by B Harry of acig.org as your own. these were also taken down by force.
I have in fact found out that the only thing that saved force and prasun sengupta from legal hassles is the fact that the forum had at that time quoted some of force's articles in full, (with due credit obviously) and which were taken down by the BRF moderators as soon as it was discovered.
Force claimed even that violated copyrights and agreed not to press charges if the plagarism charges against prasun was withdrawn.
Meaning that prasun sengupta the plagarist went scot-free only on a technicality, not because he was not guilty.
Prasun, you have made a very big mistake this time by challenging me.
From now on, each and every article of yours is going to be archived and each one of those little copy pastes are going to splashed over the blogs. and if you stop that, you will also have to stop defence journalism, because you don't know what honest journalism is.
and don't try to elevate yourself by association with shiv or ajai.
ajai is a far far better journo than you ever will be and shiv, for all his faults was never a thief like you.
take care !
To [email protected]: Just as I had expected, you too are blowing hot air without going into specifics or providing any conclusive proof. And how could you? You couldn’t find any!!! And what is this ‘defence journalism’ you’re talking about? Do you have any idea what it is all about? I’ve never claimed to be any kind of journalist and my business card does not say I’m one. Nor am I a national security journalist or an international security/relations journalist. Journalism is journalism, moron, and it doesn’t have any flavour. Get that inside your thick skull!
I repeat again, produce the weblinks of articles written by me and containing my byline in any of the publications you’ve identified above. As my reputation always precedes me, you should have had these links or printed copies of all these publications by now to reinforce your point, unless you are financially bankrupt. If you can’t then just bugger off!!! And if you can’t do so, then reveal your identity and stand up to be accounted for. Don’t hide behind the veil of anonymity. I too want to know who I’ve challenged. And what’s happening about the numbers I asked you before regarding the MiG-23BN and AL-31FP? Still don’t have a confirmed appointment with your ‘source’ at IAF HQ? Alas…how could you, for you’re just a layman relying on third-person inputs for something on someone from somewhere. Looks like you lost your balls long ago!
I wasn’t discussing about mig-23 etc with you. I don’t have time to waste on that.
you know very well that I have already mentioned the “conclusive proofs” as any semi-educated person could see.
I knew you would just hop around pretending they don’t exist.
please carry on.
and btw, Congrats ! You have finally admitted that you are not a journalist but a Plagarist !
To [email protected]: What you have been doing so far is wasting your time by needlessly indulging in an extreme form of compulsive hostility against me! When confronted, you don’t have the balls to even reveal your identity. ‘Napunsak’ must therefore be your first name, for you are evidently unable to produce specifics when pushed into a corner. By the way, do secure an appointment with a psychiatrist prior to meeting your ‘IAF source’ later today. You definitely need to do this to arrest your regressive attitude.
stop frothing at the mouth, psycho,
I never claimed to have some IAF source.
not that I don’t but I never claimed so.
it’s you who has been cornered only you are too stupid to realize it.
what’s with your obession with identity, how is that important in drawing up your list of plagarisms ?
all you can do is start foul mouthing people when confronted with your misdeeds.
end of discussion, raghead !
To the ‘Napunsak’@1.45AM: All you have made thus far are ill-founded claims. You are eminently qualified to don the esteemed mantle of LIVEFIST’s Illustrious Resident Psycho, since you are too scared to reveal your true identity. But in this digital era for how long can you reamin untraced? Within a week you will be made to surface in flesh-and-blood. Enjoy your last days as the famed Napunsak, who refused to rise to Prasun’s challenge, numbskull!
scared ? of whom ?
plagarised anyone’s work lately prasun ? are you scared of coming to India for the legal charges ?
To The [email protected]: Who’s scared of whom? Who’s refusing to reveal his/her identity? What legal charges and by whom and for what? I’ve been camping in Chennai for the past two days. Bring ’em on. I’m hot on your heels!
hey prasun
u want clarification from others on some agenda and they give u clarification
but what about if they want clarification from u and most of the time u have no answer
this is a truth .accept it.
TO [email protected]: What do think I’ve been doing for the past two days? But the other party does not want to oblige me! I never asked for any clarifications from anyone. I wanted facts in numbers and digits but looks like even that is not within reach of those numbskulls! That’s the gospel truth and you too better digest it. Khamokha mujhse panga na lena. May cost you dearly.
so you r reduced to threatening people !!!!!
great !!
i provided u with clarification with facts in numbers and digits
after that u had no answer to these clrifications
To [email protected] & 4.24AM: Angrezi samajhte ho kya? I never threatened you, but warned you. The numbers and digits I'm refering to are the number of MiG-23BNs being retired and the total number of AL-31FPs on order for the Su-30MKI fleet. Where are the answers in numbers and digits? I don't want any clarification from you. Just the numbers and digits.
Me prasun first clarify this
why mirage upgrade deal costs twice the price of mig 29 upgrade deal
mig 29 will have new built rd33
but not sure there will be new engine on mirage
mig29 upgrade=1 billion dollras
deal
mirage upgrade=1.5billion euro
deal or 2 bilion dollars
we have less no of mirages than mig29s whether there is new engine on mirages
just think how much 126 rafale or typhoon upgrade will cost us this huuuuge cost differnce pays off maintanince cost of russian mig 31 aircraft
To [email protected]: Toh woh aap ho. Are yaar if only everyone only used their true identities instead of all being anonymous. Aaj kal behut anon logo se pangga lena padta hai naa, isi liye it gets very confusing. OK, here goes.
1) Regarding costs the figures you are referring to for both the MiG-29 and Mirage 2000 upgrades pertain to the capital procurement costs. Yes, in this category the Russians are cheaper. But when you are calculating total life-cycle costs, i.e. the cost of maintaining the Russian aircraft in serviceable and airworthy condition, the costs are way higher than those for aircraft of Western origin. Let me give you an example: the total technical service life of a turbofan from the US or Europe is almost 6,000 hours, while that of the RD-33-3 or even the AL-31FP is 2,000 hours. Therefore, while the ratio of Western spare turbofans per airframe is 1: 1.2, that for Russian aircraft is 1:6. That means during the entire lifespan of 1 Su-30MKI (20 years) for example, you will require 12 turbofans to keep the aircraft airworthy. In contrast, for a Mirage 2000, you will need only two turbofans for the 20-year period. It is for this reason that the IAF is placing emphasis NOT on the initial capital procurement costs, but on the total life-cycle costs.
2) I agree with you that procuring the Rafales or EF-2000 Typhoons will cost much more. Therefore I personally believe that the turbofan that is eventually selected to power the Tejas LCA will also be powering the to-be-selected M-MRCA. Let me explain further. If the GE F414 is selected for the Tejas LCA, then the two finalists for the M-MRCA competition will be the JAS-39IN Gripen and F/A-18 Super Hornet. If the Eurojet EJ-200 is selected, then the EF-2000 Typhoon will become more attractive. If the SNECMA M-88-3 is selected for the Tejas, then suddently the Rafale will become the favourite.
At the end of the day it is all about economy of scale. The more engines you order, the greater the manufacturer’s willingness to share key restricted technologies. Therefore, buying 40 or even 60 MiG-31s doesn’t make much sense as the total life-cycle costs will be very high (as I explained above). And as you are aware, the Russians are no longer engaging in Rupee-Rouble currency transactions, they’ve also stopped asking for US$. They are now charging only in Euros, which makes the capital procurement costs and total life-cycle costs for Russia-built hardware unaffordable. Happy now? Have a great day ahead of you.
to Mr sengupta
which makes the capital procurement costs and total life-cycle costs for Russia-built hardware unaffordable
————————————
acco. to this
then IAF is stupid in buying more
su 30mki and they r also stupid in license production of these sukhois
new varients of al31 engines also have 6000 hrs of service life for
su 35bm and they r on offer
this is for the first time we r changing mig29’s engines in 20 years and no engine change has been confirmed for mirage2000
upgrading.and donot compare mirage and sukhoi.
why french asking roughly $ 1 billion more for new avionics,MICAs
guided munitions ,no new engines or just for the way in which thier industry works,mig29 will also have new avionics,guided munitions and new engines
rd 33-3 is more than match in thrust and price compared to present m88-2 ,ej 2000 and future m88-3
rd33-3 costs us only bit over $ 2 million each we paid $ 250 million for 120 rd 33-3 engines
we bought mig 29k for just
$ 30 million+$ 15 million for support and maintaince per aircraft
i give u an example-
australia bought 24 f18 super hornets for 2.8 billion bucks
so each costs $ 116 milion
they paid $ 10 billion for 10 years for support and maintainance of 24 f 18 so acc to this $ 416 millions for one aircraft for 10 years of support and maintainance
if we have 126 f18 this support and maintainance cost for 10 years will be over 50 billion dolars and throughout 40 years of life 200 billion dollars and even if u reduce its cost because of the larger number of cost it will still be upwards of 160 billion dollars
and if u have 126 rafales,typhoons and f 18 no wonder they will cost u upto 200 billion dollars for lifecycle costs excluding their upgrading costs,since rafales and typhoons have higher per aircraft cost,also f18 no less prone to embargo
mig 35 offered to us $ 40million
and these aircraft have higher costs per aircraft ,cost of upgrading is twice the costly ,their support and maintainance costs sky rocketing and these aircraft have no decisive advantage against MIG 35
and these aircraft have no such capability like r 37 long range missiles
To [email protected] & 3.48PM: As long as you retards and nitwits choose to remain anonymous and make claims to having access to the IAF etc without revealing them, and derive your knowledge bases from wikipedia, it is folks like you that will be discredited in the eyes of others. If you kids claim to have the info that others like me do not, then kindly reveal exactly how many MiG-23BNs are being retired, and how many AL-31FPs have been contractually ordered to date for the Su-30MKIs. Let's see what you come up with. Here's the big chance for you numbskulls to prove me wrong and discredit me once and for all. Are you men enough to rise up to the challenge? or will you continue having wet-dreams of the kind you've been having lately? Don't make presumptous comments like the arsehole earlier who claimed I was a plagiarist and when confronted, he merely attributed an article published by FORCE to me when I had nothing to do with it. So, unless you numbskulls and idiots are like the earlier arsehole, here's your chance to prove your worth. Rise up to it if you have the balls.
Prasun you dumb fuck, if you push us, tujhe sab ke saamne expose kar denge hum log.
Idiot, 920 AL-31FPs have been ordered by IAF. And FULL TOT is part of the deal, as recent as 5 months back, HAL Koraput had a public display of the entire engine program.
You dumb moron, sitting out of Thailand, plagiarizing other people honest work, and scratching your balls like a dog have ZERO idea of truth and reality.
You are shameless arsehole and total plagiarist. If you dont keep your mouth shut, then all the evidence will start appearing on another blogspot site which will make sure you become the laugh of century.
Think about it or otherwise STFU.
Moron.
>>YOU HAD LIFTED AN ARTICLE BY WEBMASTER IAF SITE OF BR RUPAK CHATTOPADHYAY ON THE IAF'S MIG-27 MODERNIZATION FOR THE ASIAN DEFENCE JOURNAL. (NOT FORCE AS I FIRST THOUGHT)
this is the article.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/
MONITOR/ISSUE2-6/rupak.html
this plagarism was brought to the notice of ADJ editors following which you were DROPPED from their contributor list.
this complete and total arsehole prasun sengupta had that same article reprinted in Vayu magazine.
when it was available at delhi, phoned up the chaps who ran vayu and they said this shameless chutiya sent them the entire article as his own
word to word copy yaar by this besharam behaya insaan
saale ki pole kholen kya?
haraami nain kitna copy mara hain
fellow anon,
rupak has suffered 2 times due to this arsehole prasun. this is article which appeared word to word in vayu magazine. meri to bolti bandh ho gayi, ki saala yeh aadmi kitna ajeeb hain
he rip off rupak totally and not even one word change yaar
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-1/chatto.html
fulltoo copy boss
word 2 word copy
only change was “prasun sengupta”
it shud have been “arsehole”
prasuns favorite word (and middle name)
You are shameless arsehole and total plagiarist. If you dont keep your mouth shut, then all the evidence will start appearing on another blogspot site which will make sure you become the laugh of century.
Actually, this is a good idea. Setting up a dedicated blog to track Prasuns BS will be awesome. We already have lots, including his Taiwan Ramjet BS, LRDE BS, WLR AESA BS, T-90 WITH MERK TURRET BS, so much BS that it is enough to meet India energy needs as gobar gas, he has lied so much it is easy to document it.
Any volunteers?
To All My Fans: I'm highly gratified by all your ceaseless and tireless efforts to maintain a never-ending vigil over ALL my stories, whether from the past or in the future. As you are all aware, I've been flooded with requests for starting my own blog but you dear fans could definitely solve that problem for me by setting up own very own blog that monitors ALL my stories/articles/editorial contributions. I will most definitely be thankful for any kind of beneficial exposure that you may accord me and my exploits.
Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest. Time and time again I've asked you all to provide proof of your allegations but EVERY time you arseholes have backed off. So who is the Harami, Besharam and behaya now? Kutto ki tarah bhaukte ho. Kaatna jante who kya?
Now, coming to the issue of AL-31FPs. According to the ‘Deep Licence’ given to HAL, ALL AL-31FP turbofans will be assembled in Koraput after they've arrived from Russia is fully knocked-down condition. NPO Saturn/UFA under a ToT agreement have trained HAL personnel to assemble th engines. That's the ToT, moron, ask anyone from NPO Saturn at the next Aero India expo for a second opinion if you morons don't believe me. So stop scratching your balls (if you have them) and step out into the open & learn to INTERACT DIRECTLY with the OEMs!
The final figure of 920 AL-31FPs you've given pertains to the 140 Su-30MKIs ordered, not for the total envisaged fleet of Su-30MKIs (which is 140 + 50 + 40). And FYI the total number of MiG-23BNs being retired is 123.
To Anon@841PM: Abey haramzade, kahaa hai tera naya Blog with ALL my articles” Don’t make me wait too long. Behut buri tarah se maroge. Nikamme napunsako jaisa chupe mat raho. Arsehole, the total number of AL-31FPs on order is 1,511, not 920. Learn to do your Math!!!
prasun, plz start a blog. it would make our job easier ! 😉
Abe chutiye Prasun,
Now, coming to the issue of AL-31FPs. According to the ‘Deep Licence’ given to HAL, ALL AL-31FP turbofans will be assembled in Koraput after they've arrived from Russia is fully knocked-down condition. NPO Saturn/UFA under a ToT agreement have trained HAL personnel to assemble th engines. That's the ToT, moron, ask anyone from NPO Saturn at the next Aero India expo for a second opinion if you morons don't believe me. So stop scratching your balls (if you have them) and step out into the open & learn to INTERACT DIRECTLY with the OEMs!
you bhadua liar, I am a HALite and HAL is producing those AL-31 FPs from RAW MATERIAL stage.
you are complete ass and disgrace to this blog
running like dog in front of HAL ppl begging for info is not “interacting with OEM” it only show you are two bit johnny from prostitute capital of world, thailand
idiot
ARRE BOSS LEAVE THIS PRASUN IDIOT IN OTHER DISCUSSION SOME R&D GUY KICKED HIS BUTT FOR LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH ON RADARS AND NOW HERE HE IS BULLSHITTING AGAIN
LIAR LIAR PRASUN UR SHORTS ARE ON FIRE
HAL SITE:
http://www.hal-india.com/EngineKoraput/Products.asp#AL-31%20FP
Products in Current Manufacturing Range
The Engine Division at Koraput, a unit of HAL's vast network, has the unique distinction of being one amongst the few Aero Engine manufacturers in the world.
The spectrum of manufacturing facilities extends literally from the production of nuts and bolts to discs, shafts, blades, forgings and castings – all that are required to make an Aero Engine right from the Raw materials.
This spectrum is further enlarged to include overhaul of Aero Engines for the MiG family and supply of spares required during service.
AL-31 FP engine
AL-31FP is a high temperature turbojet by-pass engine of modular design. A specific feature of AL-31FP is an axi-symmetric vectoring nozzle with a thrust vector angle of ±15° in the vertical plane providing super maneuverability of the aircraft. The vectoring nozzle control is integrated with the engine control system. AL-31FP engines ensure stable operation in all available evolutions of the aircraft in super maneuverability modes. AL-31FP engines power advanced multi-purpose Su-30 MKI fighters of the 4+ generation
ANOTHER SITE MENTIONING DEEP LICENSE
http://www.hinduonnet.com/businessline/2001/01/25/stories/042504ha.htm
HINDU
The agreement gives HAL a “deep licence,'' which will enable the company to produce all Sukhoi components in 20 years. This includes the modern thrust engine AL-31 FP.
http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/aero-india-india-for-2241.html
Under the “deep licence” agreement signed with Russia, Sukhoi has provided technology to HAL for manufacturing the powerful Al-31FP engines used in the Su-30MKI, considered one of the world’s most versatile multi-role combat aircraft.
BUT MOST IMPORTANT, RUSSIANS THEMSELVES TALKING OF HOW PRASUN SENGUPTA IS LYING
http://www.airfleet.ru/index.php?staid=1001130
NPO Saturn Director General Yury Lastochkin;
How soon will India be able to fully indigenise production of AL-31 engines?
YL: India has past experience in building both Russian and Western engines, and possesses a rich assortment of requisite technologies that will enable Indian specialists to manufacture AL-31 engines indigenously. India is currently setting a dedicated AL-31 production line. Fully indigenous production can be possible during Phase II-III of the contract, i.e. around the year 2010.
IDIOT PRASUN SENGUPTA PROVEN WRONG AGAIN IN FRONT OF ALL LIVEFIST READERS
ENJOY
NOW FOOL WILL CLAIM PRODUCTION WAS SPEEDED UP SO LICENSE WAS CANCELLED
IDIOT SEE LAST KANWA ISSUE ON MKI PRODUCTION IT SAYS ONLY HYDRAULIC COMPONENTS MAY BE IMPORTED TO SAVE COSTS BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IN INDIA
PRASUN STOP LYING AND GO BACK TO WRITING FOR FORCE
Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest.
THIS IS VERY EASY PRASUN
IN FEB 2007 FORCE MAGAZINE YOU WROTE
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state. When used in the ‘silent attack’ mode, an adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by N-011M radar that is outside BVR-AAM range. He may not be aware that another, closer Su-30MKI is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a BVR-AAM launch without using its own radar. The N-011M can also operate in an all-passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). In addition, two N-011Ms can exchange information by the TIDLS and locate hostile targets by triangulation. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The TIDLS also allows the N-011Ms to share plots, not just tracks even if none of the Su-30MKIs in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively. Each radar plot includes pulse-Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. Using TIDLS, two Su-30MKIs can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, thereby minimising the need for radar transmission. In electronic warfare (EW) applications, one Su-30MKI can track and engage a target while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the N-011M. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the N-011M that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique already validated by the IAF is for all four N-011M radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies. Come 2009, the Su-30MKI, by then being equipped with the ‘Irbis’ active phased-array radar will be transformed into a dedicated information warfare platform with a redesigned rear cockpit housing a communications-cum-EW specialist. The IAF’s overarching mission is to achieve information dominance and ensure that friendly assets have the best information possible while destroying or jamming the enemy’s information resources.
YOU ARE SUCH SHAMELESS PLAGIARIST
FIRST IRBIS IS NOT ACTIVE PHASED ARRAY RADAR BUT PASSIVE
SECOND LET US ALL GO AND SEE WHERE YOU COPIED ABOVE IMPRESSIVE SOUNDING TEXT FROM
GRIPEN LION OF THE SKY, BY BILL SWEETMAN, JOURNAL OF ELECTRONIC DEFENSE
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state. The TIDLS is fundamentally different from broadcast-style links like Link 16. It serves fewer users but links them more closely together, exchanging much more data, and operating much closer to real time.
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.
Today, Sweden is the only country that is flying with a link of this kind, and will retain that status until the F-22 enters service. The Flygvapnet has already proven some of the tactical advantages of the link, including the ability to spread the formation over a much wider area. Visual contact between the fighters is no longer necessary, because the datalink shows the position of each aircraft. Leader and wingman roles are different: the pilot in the best position makes the attack, and the fact that he has targeted the enemy is immediately communicated to the three other aircraft.
A basic use of the datalink is “silent attack.” An adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by a fighter radar that is outside missile range. He may not be aware that another, closer fighter is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a missile launch without using its own radar. After launch, the shooter can break and escape, while the other fighter continues to pass tracking data to the missile. In tests, Gripen pilots have learned that this makes it possible to delay using the AMRAAM’s active seeker until it is too late for the target to respond.
But the use of the link goes beyond this, towards what the Swedish Air Force calls “samverkan,” or close-cooperation. One example is the use of the Ericsson PS-05/A radar with TIDLS. An Ericsson paper compares its application, with identical sensors and precise knowledge of the location of both platforms, to human twins: “Communication is possible without explaining everything.”
“Radar-samverkan,” the Ericsson paper suggests, equips the formation with a super-radar of extraordinary capabilities. The PS-05/A can operate in passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). Two PS-05/As can exchange information by datalink and locate the target by triangulation. The target’s signals will often identify it as well.
The datalink results in better tracking. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The datalink allows the radars to share plots, not just tracks, so even if none of the aircraft in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively.
Each radar plot includes Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. However, this data on its own does not yield the velocity of the target. Using the TIDLS, two fighters can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, reducing the need for radar transmission.
In ECM applications, one fighter can search, while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the radar. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the radar that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique is for all four radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies.
ANYONE CAN MAKE OUT YOU HAVE COPIED THE ABOVE TEXT, CHANGED ONLY SLIGHTLY AND USED IT IN MKI ARTICLE
ALL YOUR ARTICLE ARE SIMILAR BS
Now, for the nth time, either prove ALL your allegations or just let the matter rest.
THIS IS VERY EASY PRASUN
IN FEB 2007 FORCE MAGAZINE YOU WROTE
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state. When used in the ‘silent attack’ mode, an adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by N-011M radar that is outside BVR-AAM range. He may not be aware that another, closer Su-30MKI is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a BVR-AAM launch without using its own radar. The N-011M can also operate in an all-passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). In addition, two N-011Ms can exchange information by the TIDLS and locate hostile targets by triangulation. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The TIDLS also allows the N-011Ms to share plots, not just tracks even if none of the Su-30MKIs in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively. Each radar plot includes pulse-Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. Using TIDLS, two Su-30MKIs can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, thereby minimising the need for radar transmission. In electronic warfare (EW) applications, one Su-30MKI can track and engage a target while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the N-011M. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the N-011M that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique already validated by the IAF is for all four N-011M radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies. Come 2009, the Su-30MKI, by then being equipped with the ‘Irbis’ active phased-array radar will be transformed into a dedicated information warfare platform with a redesigned rear cockpit housing a communications-cum-EW specialist. The IAF’s overarching mission is to achieve information dominance and ensure that friendly assets have the best information possible while destroying or jamming the enemy’s information resources.
YOU ARE SUCH SHAMELESS PLAGIARIST
FIRST IRBIS IS NOT ACTIVE PHASED ARRAY RADAR BUT PASSIVE
SECOND LET US ALL GO AND SEE WHERE YOU COPIED ABOVE IMPRESSIVE SOUNDING TEXT FROM
GRIPEN LION OF THE SKY, BY BILL SWEETMAN, JOURNAL OF ELECTRONIC DEFENSE
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state. The TIDLS is fundamentally different from broadcast-style links like Link 16. It serves fewer users but links them more closely together, exchanging much more data, and operating much closer to real time.
TIDLS information, along with radar, EW, and mapping data, appears on the central MFD. The display reflects complete sensor fusion: a target that is being tracked by multiple sources is one target on the screen. Detailed symbols distinguish between friendlies, hostiles, and unidentified targets and show who has targeted whom.
Today, Sweden is the only country that is flying with a link of this kind, and will retain that status until the F-22 enters service. The Flygvapnet has already proven some of the tactical advantages of the link, including the ability to spread the formation over a much wider area. Visual contact between the fighters is no longer necessary, because the datalink shows the position of each aircraft. Leader and wingman roles are different: the pilot in the best position makes the attack, and the fact that he has targeted the enemy is immediately communicated to the three other aircraft.
A basic use of the datalink is “silent attack.” An adversary may be aware that he is being tracked by a fighter radar that is outside missile range. He may not be aware that another, closer fighter is receiving that tracking data and is preparing for a missile launch without using its own radar. After launch, the shooter can break and escape, while the other fighter continues to pass tracking data to the missile. In tests, Gripen pilots have learned that this makes it possible to delay using the AMRAAM’s active seeker until it is too late for the target to respond.
But the use of the link goes beyond this, towards what the Swedish Air Force calls “samverkan,” or close-cooperation. One example is the use of the Ericsson PS-05/A radar with TIDLS. An Ericsson paper compares its application, with identical sensors and precise knowledge of the location of both platforms, to human twins: “Communication is possible without explaining everything.”
“Radar-samverkan,” the Ericsson paper suggests, equips the formation with a super-radar of extraordinary capabilities. The PS-05/A can operate in passive mode, as a sensitive receiver with high directional accuracy (due to its large antenna). Two PS-05/As can exchange information by datalink and locate the target by triangulation. The target’s signals will often identify it as well.
The datalink results in better tracking. Usually, three plots (echoes) are needed to track a target in track-while-scan mode. The datalink allows the radars to share plots, not just tracks, so even if none of the aircraft in a formation gets enough plots on its own to track the target, they may do so collectively.
Each radar plot includes Doppler velocity, which provides the individual aircraft with range-rate data. However, this data on its own does not yield the velocity of the target. Using the TIDLS, two fighters can take simultaneous range-rate readings and thereby determine the target’s track instantly, reducing the need for radar transmission.
In ECM applications, one fighter can search, while the wingman simultaneously focuses jamming on the same target, using the radar. This makes it very difficult for the target to intercept or jam the radar that is tracking him. Another anti-jamming technique is for all four radars to illuminate the same target simultaneously at different frequencies.
ANYONE CAN MAKE OUT YOU HAVE COPIED THE ABOVE TEXT, CHANGED ONLY SLIGHTLY AND USED IT IN MKI ARTICLE
ALL YOUR ARTICLE ARE SIMILAR BS
ALSO OTHER STATEMENT IN ARTICLE ARE COPIED FROM BILL SWEETMAN ARTICLE ON F-22 RAPTOR
Dear Prasun,
I have seen what the Prithvi’s trajectory looks like and I know exactly what the IA and IAF call it. And I know for a fact that it can be best classified but a ballistic missile, enhanced trajectory notwithstanding. As I said earlier, if you need the obvious stated to you, you are punching waaaay above your weight here. Perhaps you will acquire a bigger fan following if you posted on pakdef.
How about putting up some pictures of the scale models of the Sagarika? Why don’t you “reveal the truth”? As someone so fond of throwing challenges, I suppose you have no issues accepting one from time to time 🙂
Oh wait! Is the Sagarika a cruise missile in much the same way that the Prithvi is? In that case, we fundamentally agree on the technical details, except that you appear to be muddled up in the upper stories.
How about putting up some pictures of the scale models of the Sagarika? Why don’t you “reveal the truth”? As someone so fond of throwing challenges, I suppose you have no issues accepting one from time to time 🙂
He cant, because he is a bloody joke. People in DRDO laugh at Force magazine thanks to this fool and his articles. At least Sawheny has some good contacts to get decent interviews, otherwise Force would be truly Farce!
WRT war in the Caucasus, I hope you understand that Russia was attacked by Georgia.
Lets repeat that one more time, just so that the smoke in your brain doesn’t filter it out.
*Russia was attacked by Georgia.*
And Russia will retaliate – at a time and place of its choosing, whether it is in S Ossetia or Abkhazia. That’s Strategy and Tactics 101. Now Georgia has to face the consequences. If Saakashvili was so chenchitive, he shouldn’t have initiated hostilities in the first place. Not that I expect you to understand stuff like “Logic” and “facts”.
HA HA HA HA HA !!!!
ALL HAIL PRASUN THE PLAGARIST !!!!
arre bhai, i just checked, the idiot has gone and copy pasted the same TIDLS Bull sh*t for the MiG-29 K article. Kya item hain yaar
The real MKI datalink is this
http://polyot.atnn.ru/prod/prod_04_02.phtml
See range – it is 300 Km not 500 Km, and other stuff if you babelfish it
Prasun = 100 % bunkum master
ISRAEL .georgia ,whole europe,australia,s.korea,japan are riding on america’s dick
and america has bought sakaashvilli
for $ 1 billion and US enlarging NATO uselessly and missile defence system
these nato and aussies,s koreans,japanese do only those things which USA like otherwise they hav not even independent thinking what they think about world senerios against US
on the other hand
russia wants multipolar world
so what dumbhead ?
support India, neither russia not america, understand ?
hey buddy indian politicians r gay
and some of them only support themselves not india and thats y western countries made use many of international policies against india
and in dis world u hava to have a powerful friend and u hav to support friend that friend supports india otherwise u r alone in dis world
look how NATO countries r one
get dis in ur dumbhead
fine, you want to lick some russian a***, go ahead and do it.
don’t expect others to follow you.
to anon 5.31
u used this lick word for others and it shows that u have experience in
licking someone a** and that is the reason u use lick word for others
our prime minister liking american ass and before him left was liking chinese ass
STFU paki.
Ignore Shiv Aroor. He is obesessed with Western stuff.
Prasun has run off after anon showed he was a plagiarist. Sad. Here I have some more articles waiting to be “compared”
yes,,,AL-31 FP,,, Rohini radar,,,, this,… that,,,, this chap just lies and lies and lies!!@!@
***************************
BREAKING NEWS
***************************
IT HAS JUST BEEN CONFIRMED BY SOURCES THAT PRASUN SENGUPTA aka PRASUN THE PLAGARIST’S PARENTS KNEW THAT THEIR SON WAS GOING TO BE A PLAGARIST, WHICH IS WHY THEY CHOSE THE NAME ‘PRASUN’, FOR ALLITERATION EFFECT !
prasun kutte kidhar hain tu? u have shown to be liar two times above both for engine and TIDLS
napunsak prasun
prasun has run off. he said aroor was making fun of him. imagine, aroor making fun of prasun.
this is like …. a frog talking shit about a toad. all our fun is over but bhaiyyo or arooro, poor chap really got slapped for his lies
Prasun Plagirist’s article: “Formidable Overreach”
However, the Su-30MKI’s single biggest tactical advantage, particularly in the BVR fight, is the on-board tactical information data link system (TIDLS) that can connect up to four aircraft in a full two-way link. With a range of 500km and being highly resistant to jamming, the TIDLS’ can display the position, bearing and speed of all four friendly Su-30MKIs in a formation on a tactical information system, including basic status information such as fuel availability and weapons state.
Compare with…
Bill Sweetman: “Gripen: Lion of the Sky”
The TIDLS can connect up to four aircraft in a full-time two-way link. It has a range of 500 km and is highly resistant to jamming; almost the only way to jam the system is to position a jammer aircraft directly between the two communicating Gripens. Its basic modes include the ability to display the position, bearing, and speed of all four aircraft in a formation, including basic status information such as fuel and weapons state.
This, along with his copy-paste of Rupak’s article in Tempur, pretty much lays all doubts to rest, doesn’t it?
not for his idiotic fans, like kannan who are too thick to think properly.
Sengupta needs to stick to what he knows instead of blathering on about the Georgian conflict which he knows absolutely nothing about. I have the following comments/questions:
1. Abkhazia and South Ossetia were never politically integrated into Georgia even when Georgia “came into existence” as a country back in 1991. To carry on this useless pretence of Georgia having some sort of value to integrity wrt to these areas is idiotic.
2. The invasion of South Ossetia by Israeli and American trained Georgian troops had been okayed by the CIA and Pentagon who in their idiocy expected Russia not to respond (or in an effort to shift the discussion to foreign policy and therefore McCain’s strong suit actually expected it). People in both the McCain and Obama campaigns were briefed three weeks before the event. It is pathetic to complain now- having attacked while peace talks between the two sides were were going on and killing not only South Ossetian troops but also Russian troops. To complain when the Russian Bear takes a bear sized crap on the Georgians is to indicate you know little.
3. What does Prasun Sengupta know about internal Georgian “democracy” and how much that actually exists under Shakaashvilli? It’s going be a while before Georgian “democracy” looks anything like democracy in Sweden.
4. How much does Sengupta get from his CIA puppeteers? Rs 10 per day I figure? Cuz that’s about what the value of his crap political commentary is.
I used to follow prasuns articles regularly even on his own blog trishul-trident.blogspot.in but I am seriously re thinking his creds
Hahaha Like every one in Delhi the psychos are just wondering what to do about TacNukes – The Zazlon is an Awacs-size radar almost!! My crackpot solution is to liberalise the Pak Visa regime unilaterally ( and build an AIIMS in OKara !)
An AWACS that flies at nearly Mach 3 and shoots long range missiles. Perfect battlefield support against TacNukes – the only problem being that the transmitting Zazslon radar is a beacon visible to every ground controller 1000 km away. Plus its a far from elegant solution like a SAM.
I love the post on taking out Diego Garcia best. LOLOLOL Those Mauritians will turn it into a resort complete with money-laundering services.