According to the bid invitation, India wants the development partner to be responsible for “detaile
d design, development and realisation” of (a) antenna panel constisting of main antenna, guard antenna and sidelobe cancellation antenna, (b) transmit/receive modules/groups, (c) RF distribution network consisting of RF manifold/combiners, RF interface, (d) antenna/beam control chain consisting of T/R control and T/R group control, and (e) array calibration/BITE among other areas. The final requirement in the comprehensive list of ten requirements from the development partner is listed as “AAAU Integration on Tejas A/c”, confirming that the radar is indeed for a future tranche of the Tejas, or possibly, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).
“DP (development partner) must have experience in design, development, integration, testing and flightevaluation of AESA Radar systems for fighter class of aircraft. DP must ensure that the items/components used for the development of AAAU are not protected by International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR). DP must have delivered AESA class of operational systems for fighter class of aircraft meeting delivery schedules of the international customers,” the bid invitation states.
Photos by Shiv Aroor / 1. Raytheon APG-79 AESA antenna modules, Naval Air Station Lemoore, USA & 2. LCA Tejas at Aero India 2009
I would choose ELTA or Thales. Nobody else will provide full technology. What say?
to the anonymous poster at 2:05AM..the best partner would be Selex or Thales.
Elta may not pass, after all who has Elta sold AESA systems to, for it to qualify as per the last line that states that they should have DELIVERED AESA radars for fighters.
and the clear mention of ITAR regulations not wanted will hopefully keep Raytheon and Northrop Grumman out of the picture. Lately all some of these US firms they do is hinder programs by first appearing, winning and then they're unable to get the required permissions.
Developmental partner or a supplier. Apparently, LDRE wants to just stamp its name on already developed product. What a waste of time and money.
You went all the way to Germany and came back without riding it? why.
they are asking for a bloody complete solution!! Why call it a development partner?
Yes, you are right
both Elta and Thales are still testing their AESA radars and have limited experience, Raytheon and Northrop are much better bets, theirs radars are much more advanced and proven. A spin off version of the apg-79 will do and if the Super hornet wins the MRCA like i expect it to, then TOT on the LCA' AESA wouldn't be much of an issue. Israeli is the second best bet.
If everything is done by DP (development partner)!!! what is left for LRDE to do????
Instead of all this crap… why not simply buy a ready made EL/M-2052( or any other damn thing) and move on to different things to do????
If we need a development partner for every project why do we initiate them at all ?
If all radar components listed are to be provided by the partner what will be the contribution of LRDE?
Fart on antena?
What say shiv..
The problem of foreign corporation providing technology transfer is in badly written contracts and RfIs. No corporation will provide what they do not made to
The problem of foreign corporation providing technology transfer is in badly written contracts and RfIs. No corporation will provide what they do not made to
Any this will push back the procurement by how many more years?
Sid and anon@7:17, are you guys even aware of the basics of radars?
The above news posted by Shiv is great. This means that LRDE is doing EXACTLY what is required, that is looking for a mature partner for the Tx/Rx modules, which need to be miniaturized and need time to develop, test and verify while it makes its own, and is also coupling these to its own developed central receiver, exciter and radar,data, signal processing units, plus power amplification systems.
All in all this is the same approach even SAAB took for its own AESA when it took a tried and tested Raytheon array and coupled it to its own PS/05 derived backend, and later used Thales tech.
This is a farce. They claim to want a "development partner" but what they are asking for is a fully functioning radar! What is LDRE's contribution besides financing the project?
At least have some intergrity and say this is a RFP for a fully functional radar, plus ToT. Oh, one more thing, neither France nor Israel will ToT actual manufacturing. The machines used to make them are themselves sanctioned, so even if we have a theoritical manual we will never acquire a manufacturing ability unless our RAW sets up a proxy company in EU and transfers buys stuff for LDRE.
Elta 2052 AESA is best suitable and matured radar for LCA, but they need to offer 100%.
Selex may be in Testing stage.
Thales is good in AESA .
DP means data processing!!! not development partner,because LRDE has no inkling of what type of signal and data processing algorithms are required for airborne mutimode radars, forget about active antenna array!!!They have only ground based radar limited inexperience!!!!
You know guys, I think what they are doing makes sense, because if they ask for a complete product then they gain no experience in building such a system. So when they want to develop the next generation of systems, they will be completely clueless. This way (I hope this is their sincere intent) they can gain the knowhow to develop such systems further without suffering time lags that are associated with developing such systems from scratch, thus providing the Indian forces with tangible results yet working one the indigenous capabilities required by India. I think its a brilliant plan.I think we Indians are hard on DRDO which is good because it keeps them on their heels but all the same I think they are doing a great job given our limited monetary resources, flaky allies(more like lack of allies till recently, russia is the flaky one with its horrible record of service and arm twisting at points) and usually evaporating human capital(read brain drain).
anon@2:44, educate yourself about radar development and manufacturing.
the LRDE is looking for somebody who can supply an existing Tx/Rx array with proven tech to verify the exciter, receiver plus signal data processing and software. they need this to verify the basic performance of the system, this is the same approach everyone took worldwide.
the manufacturing is also not fully sanctioned, india can and does have ways to make the MMICS required for X Band AESAs, but its all about the design and packaging. its best to go with a proven array while you get the backend working and then fit in your own design.
http://www.janes.com/info/idr/articles/grippen-secures.html
SWEDISH AESA RADAR UNDERTAKES FIRST FLIGHT TRIALS
Saab (formerly Ericsson) Microwave Systems reports that it undertook the first flight trials of a new demonstrator radar for Gripen in September 2007.
The active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar is a new development, building on technology from the current PS-05/A radar of the Gripen. Known within the company as NORA III (derived from the phrase 'Not Only a RAdar'), the new radar uses a Saab-specified AESA antenna consisting of approximately 1,000 elements built by Raytheon.
anon@6:47 aka rao from hyd,
LRDE does have a fair idea of what goes into data processing and signal processing for airborne radars. the navy is quite sure of it as well, having cleared the xv-2004 trials, which have A2A, and A2G modes, the latter with SAR and ISAR both.
DP stands for development partner.
the original aim for AESA was always to collaborate with a proven partner for the tx/rx modules and packaging, while doing as much of the rest inhouse as possible, so wonder what all the whining is about.
and about the different terminologies, the AESA will have both RDP and SP combined in a common central unit, referred to as ERP – exciter, receiver, processor which LRDE is building. the processor has the combined function of signal processing (including CFAR) and then the data processing, which includes track generation and verification, plus the advanced fire control modes. the processor also feeds into the beam control unit for phase control and deciding the modes, eg PRF changes et al from the ERP.
I remember, ACM Naik asking LRDE/DRDO to came with fully indegenious AESA radar. What happened to this demand?
STOP LETTING GOVERNMENT RUN AGENCIES DICTATE INDIAN DEFENSE. LDRE NEEDS SOME PROJECT GOING ON TO GET FUNDING AND THAT IS THE REASON FOR ALL THESE DP CRAP. THEY WILL GET THE ENTIRE PRODUCT BUT SHOW THAT THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING. WHAT A WASTE OF TAX PAYERS' MONEY
Ok… thanks if they are only looking for the hardware and they are gonna develop the back end… i think its a great thing….
Indians are master in S/W
Good posts by the anonymous poster at 2:34 PM and 2:44 PM..its so typical to see people who understand very little to almost nothing about radars, jumping the gun and shouting "LRDE is asking Development Partner to do everything" without even understanding what they're asking for !
It is this ignorance cloaked opinion induced statements that make me sometimes wonder whether its even worth ever reading any discussion on Indian defence on the internet. The people who understand technology don't appear online and every other dimwit with access to a computer thinks he understands technology and strategy better than someone who works on it day and night. Its such a pity.
EJ 200 and This ASEA radar from UK/Germany for LCA MKII… i am sure this two items are worth 20-25 mil pop…. so select euro fighter and you will get it 25 mil cheaper… Looks like i know why MMRCA is getting insane amount of time to select a vendor and why they let everyone into the TENT… including Russian to keep others in line…:)
Kartik,
I understand what you say!!! But you need to blame DRDO too as they use to say they will be able to FLY KAVERI… in about 5 years…
C'on… they haven't been that honest either…
if they are changing now… well we need some to time to change our ourselves too Right 🙂
Lists a) to e) are "items/ components", aka hardware ("Active Array Antenna Unit, AAAU"). DP would also have to fit the ASEA into Teja and ensure it works (hence the partner must have "delivered ASEA class operating systems"). End of 2nd para, namely "..radar is indeed for a FUTURE tranche of Teja or AMCA [ie. NFGA]" would suggest this radar is not for Teja Mk1.
This shows: India is nowhere in terms of development its own hardware or signficant ASEA components. This deal, inter alia, gets an experienced operator for problem-solving the final integration just-in-case difficuties arise. The rest being a copy-right of LRDE/ DRDO, would have pass through tough scrutiny of the Airforce. IMHO, this deal makes it very likely that a state-of-art ASEA is ready for when it is required.
Thanks to the Anons who took the trouble to educate. All that info should have been in the original article, but I guess not, eh Shiv?
Rols Royce tuk a century to develop a gas turbine engine which India tuk a quarter. Comment??