34 thoughts on “CLOSE-UPS: Tejas LSP-5 On Its First Flight”
Mr. Ra
Looks beautiful with a fine finish, albeit it is not supposed to participate in any beauty contest and in-spite of it being built at the cost of taxpayers money.
I hope the LCA-mk2 will have more powerful engine with higher air intake size and more wing area. Then it will in no ambiguous terms become clearly techno-economically superior than the J-10.
To keshto: That aside, I don't think the MoD has the balls required for meeting the per-unit costs associated with the JSF. India is still reconciled to paying no more than US$50 million per combat aircraft as of now and despite that, production of the Su-30MKI cannot be ramped up by HAL from the 12 units per annum rate.
To Shiv: Next, the doofus will allege that the tail number has been photoshopped! There's no end to it (LoL!)
about doofuses (is that a word btw)…naa..they are gonna say an older a/c was painted with a new number…
@Shiv… can u post some numbers on program expenditure on LCA with a timeline on when the funding was released..(ball park numbers even :D).it would be mighty helpful in these discussions….
India just paid more than 100 million$ per piece for the latest Su30MKIs. It has also agreed to shell out 30 billion $ for 250 FGFA. Hence money isn't a problem as defense budget is several times more than that of education and health.
To [email protected]: All it says is that efforts are on by the DRDO to develop the 3,500km-range K-4 SLBM and a 200km-range air-launched 4-metre long hypersonic missile called Air-Launched Article, supposedly being designed to fit on the Su-30MKI's belly. While the K-4 will have a 1-tonne nuclear warhead, the air-launched missile will have a 500kg nuclear warhead. The article also alludes to a study done by a team led by former CNS Admiral (ret'd) Arun Prakash who had rightly recommended the replacement of the Prithvi SS-150s and Agni-1/2/3s with the 750km-range K-15 Shaurya and the projected K-4 and its planned 5,000km-range derivative. But this recommendation has since been thrown into the trash can by the strategically dysfunctional decision-makers of Hindustan sitting within the MoD. The article also talks about the Arihant now suffering from unnamed technical glitches as a result of which it is to be inducted into service in 2013. Now here's what the article fails to throw light on: 1) How exactly will the most survivable element of India's strategic nuclear triad (the SSBN and its on-board SLBMs) provide credible deterrence when the SLBMs have a range of no more than 5,000km? Why is the DRDO unable to develop an SLBM with a range of 8,000km, as mandated in the so-called 'classified' report prepared by Admiral (Ret'd) Arun Prakash? 2) How will the 10-metre long K-15 or the 12-metre long K-4 be made to fit into the 10-metre diameter pressure hull of the Arihant SSBN? 3) Who will validate the results of the combination of the K-15/K-4 and the Arihant in terms of vessel stability/buoyancy and personnel safety? The DRDO or the Russians? 4) What are the technical glitches with the Arihant? Do they concern the on-board nuclear reactor and is that the reason why the n-reactor has not yet received its consignment of n-fuel rods? Or is it is design problem since the n-reactor design provided by the Russians was originally meant for a nuclear ice-breaker, and not for a SSBN? Is the DAE therefore now facing some previously unforeseen but fundamental design/containment problems? 5) Will the DAE and DRDO be able to develop completely new n-warheads for the SLBM, since existing warhead designs meant for the Agni family of ballistic missiles will be totally unsuitable for the SLBMs? 6) Consequently, won't the n-warheads of the SLBMs require additional testing–aka Shatki-3 series of tests? 7) Lastly, will India's political decision-makers have the balls to authorise a standalone, ready-to-fire nuclear arsenal to proceed on operation al patrols in peacetime and wartime into the deep waters of the Indian Ocean at a time when it insists on keeping the land-based ballistic missiles' n-warheads and their plutonium-based cores under the DRDO's and DAE's custody, and not with the Strategic Forces Command, which is left with only an inventory warhead-less ballistic missiles?
I don't think the MoD has the balls required for meeting the per-unit costs associated with the JSF
We know Raksha Mantralay wont cough up this much on single ticket (as you have rightly said), but who will show a red scarf to this bull who is hell bent on bringing F-35 home, and trashing his forumites left right and center (with or without reason).
People are saying Maal mila hai (by his own words) Lockheed walo se….No wonder the guy is blindly pushing the envelop on this….
@Shiv. Re doofus @ 0948, I'm sure you could have come up with something better than tail number. Radome colour, VOR / TACAN antennae, RWR antenna position, decal / stencil details, there's lots of stuff out there which differentiates the LSPs. But of course, you wouldnt need to know that, you're from the all-powerful, all-knowing Indian media. Jeet
I'm sure you could have come up with something better than tail number. Radome colour, VOR / TACAN antennae, RWR antenna position, decal / stencil details,
Yes, but it would have been a case of craking the nut with sledgehammer!
Kanta sui se niklta hai, doctor kyon bulauoon 😉
May be you cant separate the chaff from the grain, but others do!
To keshto: Really? So the bull was bulldozing all this while to clear the way for the JSF, was he? And I guess he's now got enough 'maal' to dispose some of it in Dharamsala in the company of His Holiness The Dalai Lama (LoL!). Actually, keshto, you should cut some slack for 'this bull', since he has an Army background and is not well-versed enough in airpower-related matters. That was precisely the reason why he was recently needlessly whacking the IAF (while pushing for the JSF for ground attack) for failing to come to the Army's aid during OP Vijay in 1999. What he never explained was why exactly the Army HQ (especially the then Vice Chief) was persistently pleading since April 1999 for close air support (and that too by Mi-25/Mi-35P attack helicopters!). Surely someone at Army HQ knew that attack helicopters had never before been employed at such forbidding heights by anyone (and consequently why on earth was the IAF expected to stick its neck out and attempt the impossible at its own peril)! Therefore, keshto, the next time 'this bull' rants about airpower-related issues, pray do forgive his ignorance.
To [email protected]: Some folks, like Jeet Hormuz, prefer to function like headless chicken, hence their 'buffoon-like responses.
When is first crash for the late crash aircraft (LCA)?
Do you think that INDIA will this junk machine during war or it will be in Sulur air-force station for local police protection ?
what a achievement total 7 aircraft produced after 25 – 30 yrs of R&D. many big belly dumbos got retired after working on this junk after making very good money.
A country smaller than UP produced 33,000 ME109 during 1940 within 5 years. Thats what you call it as Production. LSP means limited Series Production ..thats why its limited i think.
GOD Please save IAF Pilots and local peoples from this LATE CRASH AIRCRAFT (LCA).
I believe you were at the Zuhai airshow. How did you find the chinese 4th Gen aircraft? How would you compare the JF-17 with F16? The J-10 with the likes of eurofighter? We have heard reports from pakistani fans that the jf17 generally gets the upper hand in combat with f16 and is in fact the reason that they are no too sure of ordering the J10. What is yyour take on all this?
The leading edge of the wings are getting more and more interesting. Is this a recent change or has the aircraft always been this way? Why was it designed this way? Is it a fixed edge or is it pilot / automatically controlled? What are the aerodynamic advantages? I'm curious, just woke up to the fact that the leading edge is almost jagged.
To Murli: Here are my impressions about the issues raised by you: 1) The Chinese do not refer to the JF-17 Thunder and J-10A/B Soaring Dragon as 4th-generation MRCA. According to AVIC Defense and CATIC China's first 4th-generation MRCA is presently being developed and this will be likely known as the Jian J-14. It will be a single-seat, twin-engined J-10 with twin canted vertical stabilisers, and powered by two AL-31FN turbofans. It will have panoramic AMLCDs in the cockpit of the type displayed at Zhuhai both in 2008 and this time as well. 2) The 5th-generation MRCA is being developed in parallel to the J-14 and this will likely be designated as the Jian J-20. Chengdu Aircraft Co is leading the R & D effort for both the J-14 and J-20. 3) Consequently, both the existing J-10A/B and JF-17 cannot be compared to the F-16 Block 52/60. Both in terms of performance and reliability, the J-10 and JF-17 are still years behind the F-16 Block 52/60. 4) Therefore, for the PAF's requirement, the CAC is now developing the FC-20, which will incorporate on board some of the technologies already developed by China for the J-14 programme. But have no doubts about the FC-20's future service induction. Both the FC-20 and the JF-17 will be hard-wired to work in conjunction with the PAF-specific ZDK-03 AEW & C platforms.
woah,i didnt knew pakistanis pay our taxes.bachhe,itni dua mat kariyo humare iaf pilots ke liye,if they get saved,ur @sses will be in REALLY deep trouble!! Reguards -indian taxpayer!
1. Its flying – so thats a + 2. AFter close to 25 years – thats a huge – 3. Looks good and looks like it belongs in the skies – + 4. Only two missiles ? as always ? 5. Have we – as a nation and in the interest of self sufficiency – learnt the RIGHT lessons? – BIG question mark !!! 6. Have we for the last 25 years just re-invented the wheel and fallen prey to the typical Western feelings of the NIH syndrome – NIH = Not Invented Here? – Again another BIG question mark.
Its certainly heartening to see her all grown up into a fine aircraft of her own league. Though I found the identification debate amusing,The doofus comment could have been avoided. I did quite a bit of research on how much demand is there on the open market for tejas, from what I've found. Few airforces apart from the Indian air force are in quite desperate need of aircraft. I've categorised them into look east and look west. In the east we have vietnam looking to replace 200 mig-21 and indonesia looking for 50 kfx. In the west we have egypt which needs to replace j-7, mirage 5, mig-21 amounting to 173 and turkey f-5 at 77. Lets say after 40 tejas mk-1 IAF doesn't want anymore, so what I propose is in the words of godfather "an offer they can't refuse" that IAF will transfer air worthy Tejas 10 each to two nations it is operating from the second squadron which was formed after FOC to either of the west or east consortium, while Hal replaces tejas in Iaf 2nd squadron through 2016, since by then tejas mk-2 will be ready for production, the assembly and production lines that are exclusive to tejas Mk-1 can be transferred then to the east or west consortium completely free of charge provided they pay for transportation and oppurtunity cost, i.e to sum up zero profits, atleast the work put in by scientists and engineers for mk-1 will not be wasted. Wastage of resources is criminal by all accounts, since the IAF will never realise this, we rather make some friends through these unprepedented gestures. I'm also open to transferring the line to a single nation, if they are so committed, but lets not waste it. I would like to know if a sugession has made the rounds yet, or a pot belly in HAL and MOD blocking the executive from seeing it.Pls post back in my blog it would be an honour.
To Anon@12:43PM: IAF HQ and the MoD would beg to differ with your outrageous claim of 28 Su-30MKis being churned out from Nashik last year. As of last August there were some 110 Su-30MKis in service, meaning HAL had delivered 60 Su-30MKIs between 2002 and August 2010. This works out to slightly over seven per annum. Even if you go by the Defence Minister's statement in Parliament about the delivery schedule of the second-last batch of 40 Su-30MKIs on order (deliveries will begin in 2014 and end in 2018), it works out to 10 per annum. Even if HAL were to concurrently licence-build both the Su-30MKIs of the original batch of 140 plus the follow-on 40 plus the latest order for 40 (being negotiated), it still does not cross the 20-unit per annum mark.
Looks beautiful with a fine finish, albeit it is not supposed to participate in any beauty contest and in-spite of it being built at the cost of taxpayers money.
I hope the LCA-mk2 will have more powerful engine with higher air intake size and more wing area. Then it will in no ambiguous terms become clearly techno-economically superior than the J-10.
Serious setback on Ajay Shukla´s dreams of peddling F-35 to India and be in good books of US defense department and in the process make India the Superpower!
Lol…
How can we say that this is indeed LSP-5 and not some old photo rehashed for blog.
Wow!! Looks much more refined, beautiful as Mr. Ra said…
[email protected]: check the tail number, doofus.
Hey shiv there are reports in India Today magazine about sum K-series missile…Plz post sum thing of this….even it has a pic of SSBN Arihant
To keshto: That aside, I don't think the MoD has the balls required for meeting the per-unit costs associated with the JSF. India is still reconciled to paying no more than US$50 million per combat aircraft as of now and despite that, production of the Su-30MKI cannot be ramped up by HAL from the 12 units per annum rate.
To Shiv: Next, the doofus will allege that the tail number has been photoshopped! There's no end to it (LoL!)
mr sengupta, update yourself. HAL last year produced 28 MKI not 12. What happened to your blog? lol
@ prasun
about doofuses (is that a word btw)…naa..they are gonna say an older a/c was painted with a new number…
@Shiv…
can u post some numbers on program expenditure on LCA with a timeline on when the funding was released..(ball park numbers even :D).it would be mighty helpful in these discussions….
@Prasun
India just paid more than 100 million$ per piece for the latest Su30MKIs. It has also agreed to shell out 30 billion $ for 250 FGFA. Hence money isn't a problem as defense budget is several times more than that of education and health.
Can anybody tell me which missiles is the plane carrying?
To [email protected]: All it says is that efforts are on by the DRDO to develop the 3,500km-range K-4 SLBM and a 200km-range air-launched 4-metre long hypersonic missile called Air-Launched Article, supposedly being designed to fit on the Su-30MKI's belly. While the K-4 will have a 1-tonne nuclear warhead, the air-launched missile will have a 500kg nuclear warhead. The article also alludes to a study done by a team led by former CNS Admiral (ret'd) Arun Prakash who had rightly recommended the replacement of the Prithvi SS-150s and Agni-1/2/3s with the 750km-range K-15 Shaurya and the projected K-4 and its planned 5,000km-range derivative. But this recommendation has since been thrown into the trash can by the strategically dysfunctional decision-makers of Hindustan sitting within the MoD. The article also talks about the Arihant now suffering from unnamed technical glitches as a result of which it is to be inducted into service in 2013.
Now here's what the article fails to throw light on:
1) How exactly will the most survivable element of India's strategic nuclear triad (the SSBN and its on-board SLBMs) provide credible deterrence when the SLBMs have a range of no more than 5,000km? Why is the DRDO unable to develop an SLBM with a range of 8,000km, as mandated in the so-called 'classified' report prepared by Admiral (Ret'd) Arun Prakash?
2) How will the 10-metre long K-15 or the 12-metre long K-4 be made to fit into the 10-metre diameter pressure hull of the Arihant SSBN?
3) Who will validate the results of the combination of the K-15/K-4 and the Arihant in terms of vessel stability/buoyancy and personnel safety? The DRDO or the Russians?
4) What are the technical glitches with the Arihant? Do they concern the on-board nuclear reactor and is that the reason why the n-reactor has not yet received its consignment of n-fuel rods? Or is it is design problem since the n-reactor design provided by the Russians was originally meant for a nuclear ice-breaker, and not for a SSBN? Is the DAE therefore now facing some previously unforeseen but fundamental design/containment problems?
5) Will the DAE and DRDO be able to develop completely new n-warheads for the SLBM, since existing warhead designs meant for the Agni family of ballistic missiles will be totally unsuitable for the SLBMs?
6) Consequently, won't the n-warheads of the SLBMs require additional testing–aka Shatki-3 series of tests?
7) Lastly, will India's political decision-makers have the balls to authorise a standalone, ready-to-fire nuclear arsenal to proceed on operation al patrols in peacetime and wartime into the deep waters of the Indian Ocean at a time when it insists on keeping the land-based ballistic missiles' n-warheads and their plutonium-based cores under the DRDO's and DAE's custody, and not with the Strategic Forces Command, which is left with only an inventory warhead-less ballistic missiles?
Shiv, what is Sandeep Unnithan writing in India Today?
Wonderful article on India,s SLBM capability!
Can you expound it through your sources?
I don't think the MoD has the balls required for meeting the per-unit costs associated with the JSF
We know Raksha Mantralay wont cough up this much on single ticket (as you have rightly said), but who will show a red scarf to this bull who is hell bent on bringing F-35 home, and trashing his forumites left right and center (with or without reason).
People are saying Maal mila hai (by his own words) Lockheed walo se….No wonder the guy is blindly pushing the envelop on this….
@Shiv. Re doofus @ 0948, I'm sure you could have come up with something better than tail number. Radome colour, VOR / TACAN antennae, RWR antenna position, decal / stencil details, there's lots of stuff out there which differentiates the LSPs. But of course, you wouldnt need to know that, you're from the all-powerful, all-knowing Indian media.
Jeet
Jeet, that's a buffoon's response. If the pennant number will do, why go into everything else? 😀
Jeet, that's a buffoon's response. If the pennant number will do, why go into everything else?
Correct!
But he is after its DNA 😉
I'm sure you could have come up with something better than tail number. Radome colour, VOR / TACAN antennae, RWR antenna position, decal / stencil details,
Yes, but it would have been a case of craking the nut with sledgehammer!
Kanta sui se niklta hai, doctor kyon bulauoon 😉
May be you cant separate the chaff from the grain, but others do!
Oh ye doubting thomas…
To keshto: Really? So the bull was bulldozing all this while to clear the way for the JSF, was he? And I guess he's now got enough 'maal' to dispose some of it in Dharamsala in the company of His Holiness The Dalai Lama (LoL!). Actually, keshto, you should cut some slack for 'this bull', since he has an Army background and is not well-versed enough in airpower-related matters. That was precisely the reason why he was recently needlessly whacking the IAF (while pushing for the JSF for ground attack) for failing to come to the Army's aid during OP Vijay in 1999. What he never explained was why exactly the Army HQ (especially the then Vice Chief) was persistently pleading since April 1999 for close air support (and that too by Mi-25/Mi-35P attack helicopters!). Surely someone at Army HQ knew that attack helicopters had never before been employed at such forbidding heights by anyone (and consequently why on earth was the IAF expected to stick its neck out and attempt the impossible at its own peril)! Therefore, keshto, the next time 'this bull' rants about airpower-related issues, pray do forgive his ignorance.
To [email protected]: Some folks, like Jeet Hormuz, prefer to function like headless chicken, hence their 'buffoon-like responses.
Beautiful, very beautiful.
When is first crash for the late crash aircraft (LCA)?
Do you think that INDIA will this junk machine during war or it will be in Sulur air-force station for local police protection ?
what a achievement total 7 aircraft produced after 25 – 30 yrs of R&D. many big belly dumbos got retired after working on this junk after making very good money.
A country smaller than UP produced 33,000 ME109 during 1940 within 5 years.
Thats what you call it as Production.
LSP means limited Series Production ..thats why its limited i think.
GOD Please save IAF Pilots and local peoples from this LATE CRASH AIRCRAFT (LCA).
Regards,
TAX PAYER
@ Anon @ 5:09. Zigackly ! BZ on that one.
Hi Prasun,
I believe you were at the Zuhai airshow. How did you find the chinese 4th Gen aircraft? How would you compare the JF-17 with F16? The J-10 with the likes of eurofighter? We have heard reports from pakistani fans that the jf17 generally gets the upper hand in combat with f16 and is in fact the reason that they are no too sure of ordering the J10. What is yyour take on all this?
The leading edge of the wings are getting more and more interesting. Is this a recent change or has the aircraft always been this way? Why was it designed this way? Is it a fixed edge or is it pilot / automatically controlled? What are the aerodynamic advantages? I'm curious, just woke up to the fact that the leading edge is almost jagged.
To Murli: Here are my impressions about the issues raised by you:
1) The Chinese do not refer to the JF-17 Thunder and J-10A/B Soaring Dragon as 4th-generation MRCA. According to AVIC Defense and CATIC China's first 4th-generation MRCA is presently being developed and this will be likely known as the Jian J-14. It will be a single-seat, twin-engined J-10 with twin canted vertical stabilisers, and powered by two AL-31FN turbofans. It will have panoramic AMLCDs in the cockpit of the type displayed at Zhuhai both in 2008 and this time as well.
2) The 5th-generation MRCA is being developed in parallel to the J-14 and this will likely be designated as the Jian J-20. Chengdu Aircraft Co is leading the R & D effort for both the J-14 and J-20.
3) Consequently, both the existing J-10A/B and JF-17 cannot be compared to the F-16 Block 52/60. Both in terms of performance and reliability, the J-10 and JF-17 are still years behind the F-16 Block 52/60.
4) Therefore, for the PAF's requirement, the CAC is now developing the FC-20, which will incorporate on board some of the technologies already developed by China for the J-14 programme. But have no doubts about the FC-20's future service induction. Both the FC-20 and the JF-17 will be hard-wired to work in conjunction with the PAF-specific ZDK-03 AEW & C platforms.
woah,i didnt knew pakistanis pay our taxes.bachhe,itni dua mat kariyo humare iaf pilots ke liye,if they get saved,ur @sses will be in REALLY deep trouble!!
Reguards -indian taxpayer!
Very mixed feelings on seeing the LSP.
1. Its flying – so thats a +
2. AFter close to 25 years – thats a huge –
3. Looks good and looks like it belongs in the skies – +
4. Only two missiles ? as always ?
5. Have we – as a nation and in the interest of self sufficiency – learnt the RIGHT lessons? – BIG question mark !!!
6. Have we for the last 25 years just re-invented the wheel and fallen prey to the typical Western feelings of the NIH syndrome – NIH = Not Invented Here? – Again another BIG question mark.
@Taxpayer
This aircraft will be used against Pak AF and PLAAF. There is no doubt about it.This is just the first iteration.
Its certainly heartening to see her all grown up into a fine aircraft of her own league.
Though I found the identification debate amusing,The doofus comment could have been avoided.
I did quite a bit of research on how much demand is there on the open market for tejas, from what I've found. Few airforces apart from the Indian air force are in quite desperate need of aircraft. I've categorised them into look east and look west. In the east we have vietnam looking to replace 200 mig-21 and indonesia looking for 50 kfx. In the west we have egypt which needs to replace j-7, mirage 5, mig-21 amounting to 173 and turkey f-5 at 77.
Lets say after 40 tejas mk-1 IAF doesn't want anymore, so what I propose is in the words of godfather "an offer they can't refuse" that IAF will transfer air worthy Tejas 10 each to two nations it is operating from the second squadron which was formed after FOC to either of the west or east consortium, while Hal replaces tejas in Iaf 2nd squadron through 2016, since by then tejas mk-2 will be ready for production, the assembly and production lines that are exclusive to tejas Mk-1 can be transferred then to the east or west consortium completely free of charge provided they pay for transportation and oppurtunity cost, i.e to sum up zero profits, atleast the work put in by scientists and engineers for mk-1 will not be wasted. Wastage of resources is criminal by all accounts, since the IAF will never realise this, we rather make some friends through these unprepedented gestures. I'm also open to transferring the line to a single nation, if they are so committed, but lets not waste it.
I would like to know if a sugession has made the rounds yet, or a pot belly in HAL and MOD blocking the executive from seeing it.Pls post back in my blog it would be an honour.
Thank you Prasun.
And I guess he's now got enough 'maal' to dispose some of it in Dharamsala in the company of His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lolum lol….
Prasun you are one of a kind yaar 😉
Looks like something between M2000 and Rafale…
To Anon@12:43PM: IAF HQ and the MoD would beg to differ with your outrageous claim of 28 Su-30MKis being churned out from Nashik last year. As of last August there were some 110 Su-30MKis in service, meaning HAL had delivered 60 Su-30MKIs between 2002 and August 2010. This works out to slightly over seven per annum. Even if you go by the Defence Minister's statement in Parliament about the delivery schedule of the second-last batch of 40 Su-30MKIs on order (deliveries will begin in 2014 and end in 2018), it works out to 10 per annum. Even if HAL were to concurrently licence-build both the Su-30MKIs of the original batch of 140 plus the follow-on 40 plus the latest order for 40 (being negotiated), it still does not cross the 20-unit per annum mark.
So HAL can't even licence-build on schedule? Can we at least set up a few additional private-sector assembly lines for this?