A correction to my previous post (since removed). The deal with Pilatus for 75 PC-7 basic trainer aircraft hasn’t been approved yet (it will be soon). Today’s meeting only cleared a 950-mil Euro deal for MBDA MICA missiles for the IAF’s Mirage 2000 upgrade package.
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Shiv it supposed to be €950mn and in $ it supposed to be $1.23bn.
Shiv,
Is this deal an indication that the Rafale has an edge in the MMRCA. Spending that much money for 20 year old jets (almost 10 missiles to an aircraft) would be controversial for the government if it didn't plan to go for the Rafale.
looto, bharat ko looto.
I BELIEVE THAT MMRCA FIGHTER DEAL WOULD GO TO EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON.. EVERYBODY HAS GOT THE SHARE ..OF DEALS
2 Million Euros Per Missile..Why is it such expensive ? Just curious
Here is another scam in the making. Firstly, the upgrade cost as much as a new Mirage 2000 would cost in the market today and secondly the missile cost 4 times the price of the missile in the market as reported by Wiki.
Someone somewhere is getting his pockets very full with this deal.
A part of the price of the Rafale is included in the M2000 deal, this is obvious.
The result of MMRCA is known since the the disclosure of the shortlist.
The Rafale did better than the Typhoon in technical evaluations and it is less expensive.
Everything has been made to make sure the Rafale is the L1.
the entire mirage upgrade deal reeks of something very very fishy…
the basic deal without the missiles is obviously exorbitant..and that has been discussed here ad nauseum…
but even the mica missile deal is way tooooooooo expensive….way tooooooooooo….no way can mica missiles cost so much..assuming we are only buying around 450 right?
what the hell is going on shiv?..can u talk to some folks in mod and find out?
-vishal
It may be a good deal only in tandem with the Rafale being the MMRCA winner, otherwise…
Hey Shiv,
I'm really interested in the indian defense sector..if you wouldn't mind…could you add me on bbm?
my pin is 2621D20D
thanks man.
Shiv,
I know this is not the best place to put this link, but could you comment on the below article:
seems like a scam in the making.
http://www.ekhabar.in/enews/156-india-news/15062-indian-army-blinded-by-controversial-equipment.html
hence rafale is winner!! because ef doesnt use such missiles in its' aircraft!! … what a deal..??
Clear indication of rafale!!!
Europe has done it in the past and it is their chance again to plunder India…come loot us.
MMRCA is going to Rafale for sure. This missile is lethal when fitted on Rafale. It can be fired beyond homming range, i cant see why IAF will pay so much to buy such a missile when there are other missiles available.
To All those indigenous equipment bashers!!! This what happens if you dont make your own missiles, own a/c and for that matter your own defence equipment. So we are forced to bend before the foreign seller!!! They will Fu@#@$@ us where ever they find a hole and make one if its not there…thats is the attitude. support indigenous equipment R&D and industries ..be it public or pvt sector… The Mod baboos forming DGQA and other inspection agencies behave like leaches before Indian R&D equipment designers and suck their blood out ,by demanding moon and acting high and difficult..This culture is killing the defence R&D. pvt sector either runs away or tries to bribe and gets approvals .We need an Anna Hazare to support Indian R&D in defence.!!!!
Two iaf officers denied for the visa by chinki. Manmohan singh lead goverment is such a spineless and guttless goverment who cannot even make strong stand against such thing these never happand again . This goverment is only worried for the winning election. This kind of guttless goverment, india dont need.
This means..
— MMRCA Tender will be cancelled (US is putting immense pressure on Govt /Congress Leaders and Officers in MOD to get this tender cancelled now)while saying significant rise on the cost of the program, since both the contenders Eurofighter and Rafale bided higher price for this tender also the fall of Indian Rupees Vs USD/Euro (Please notice how suddenly and quickly INR went to bottom vis-à-vis USD and Euro (just in the last phase of this MMRCA tendering process) I think this was done artificially to show this order will cost double of the planned cost to India..
And a direct Govt to Govt order will be worked out to purchase F-35 from US to make US happy.
Or else
— Eurofighter is winning Indian MMRCA race, as other competitor country France got orders for Mirage Upgrade Order, Mica Missile order and also last two Scorpene might get AIP .and Rafale does not have any other sale/order commitment other than from it’s own country France…and France too considering a stop on further order.i.s. a full stop to Rafale Production Line and Program.
I feel we are going to see the first option be executed by UPA government within very near future time frame and that too…it has to be before done and finalized before the next Lok-Sabha Election is conducted.
Regards,
One AIM-120 AMRAAM D is costing around 0.7 Million ! 500 will cost only 350 Million !!!! Why MICA. is so costly ?? (almost 3 times costlier) Or it is the same old story.
As a foreigner, I fail to understand India's government logic in going ahead with this huge upgrade contract for 25 years old Mirage. Given India is introducing the Tejas, would it not make more sense to spend $1B+ on 1 or 2 squadrons of Tejas instead? I assume India wants to produce its own fighter planes (from what I read), then India should be betting on its own horse, not handicapping it.
Like the AMRAAM ,Mica can be fired beyond visual range but it can also be fired at short range (< 500m) with outstanding efficience. AAMRAM can't, and aircraft using it need also short range missiles…
The price of a MICA is around 0,5 (EM) and 0,8 (IR) millions euros but the deal with india includes also tools , test benchs and probably ToT ..which explains the price
This is super ridiculous!! 900 Million euros.. You got to be kidding. The UPA govt is beyond stupid and beyond ridiculous.
We are over spending on defence and on the wrong items. The DRDO, Foreign arms manufacturers and our desi and defence top brass are blood suckers
Perhaps india is paying money for something else and showing this as a missile deal , only to not to draw the attention of whole world for certain kind of TOT.
^^ So as a foreigner, let Indians deal with their own business !
@ An andian: where did you see that Rafale line is going to be stopped soon? Not before 2030 according to French officials. Furthermore, contrary to EF countries, France does not intend to sell its own Rafale to other customers but to keep all of them within FAF and FN. France is serious on defence matters.
Btw, your first option may be in the pipeline, excepting the F-35 conclusion I think, but we'll see.
@ Parthasarathi: according to Wikipedia? Lol !!
paying exorbitant amounts for foreign stuff is the new trend of the MoD..this money could have gone on for the ASTRA BVRAAM..similarly we are scrapping the INSAS and about to induct some rifle that will cost 10times more & still jam..When the m16 s tended to jam in vietnam the US didn't replace 'em..no nation became a superpower with imported weapons!!
ok now every1 worried about a scam in the making….
in india…its a rule that for every foreign defence deal…30 percent of the price amount is to be invested back to india by the seller (france in this case)…
ps: i do not rule out a scam in the making…
Why Were Iraq's Aircraft & Tanks Behaving Erratically During the Gulf Wars?
During the first Gulf War, it was reported that Iraq's fighter planes that rose to meet the American attackers were just flying randomly instead of attacking the attackers. In the second Gulf War, therefore, Iraq simply buried its fighter planes in the sand or sent them to shelter in Iran. During the second Gulf War, it was reported that Iraqi tanks defending Baghdad were firing randomly instead of hitting the advancing American tanks. Both these phenomena were due to the fact that microwave signals from U. S. satellites can hack into and operate any digital circuitry and the Iraqi inability to control its aircraft and tanks was due to such hacking. When an Indian Sukhoi-30MKI crashed on December 13 '11, the pilots who ejected safely reported that they were having difficulty controlling the plane and struggled to control it for 20 minutes before ejecting. This is what I have written about that:-
"When I say the new Chief of Air Staff, N. A. K. Browne, is a CIA-RAW man, I mean he literally sits at CIA-supplied terminals to participate in crimes against India. More than a thousand Indian Air Force aircraft have crashed since 1970, the vast majority of the crashes caused by microwaves from U. S. satellites which can hack into and operate any digital equipment. In his first week in office as Chief of Air Staff, Browne caused two Indian Air Force fighter planes to crash with microwaves from satellites, to give a boost to his bid to buy worse than worthless foreign aircraft for several tens of billions of dollars of which he will get a hefty cut along with the Defence Minister and the Italian woman who gets the largest cut. The Sukhoi crash on Dec. 13 '11 and the grounding of the Sukhoi fleet has been caused 2 days ahead of the purchase decision as the purchase was made impossible by my opposition to it. See IndianAirForcePilotsMurderDOTblogspotDOTcom . "
The United States can similarly disable air defence missiles and has repeatedly disabled Pakistan's air defences. It even disabled Pakistan's nuclear warheads during the Kargil conflict as Gen. Musharraf has admitted. I have repeatedly pointed to this peril from microwave signals from U. S. satellites as in my addendum dated February 26, 2006 titled "National security crisis due to microwaves from satellites" in my blog titled "Nuclear Supremacy For India Over U.S." which can be found from a Yahoo/Google search with the title and have provided solutions to this problem. Despite all this, the criminals of the Indian government — the Cabinet Committee on Security — just a couple days ago approved the purchase of one and a half billion dollars worth of worse than worthless French air-to-air missiles for the worse than worthless Mirage 2000 fighters.
Satish Chandra
P.S. RAW posts a torrent of abuse on what I say. Ignore it. These criminals are guilty of the gravest treason, deserve the death penalty and that is what they will get. See IndianAirForcePilotsMurderDOTblogspotDOTcom
This is the reason UPA is so firm on keeping control over CBI. The moment CBI becomes independent or comes under Lokpal a dozen new major scams will come out – Mirage scam, MICA scam, Scorpene scam etc. and hundreds of Congress ministers will end up arrested starting at the top with Manmohan and Chidambaram.
You think it is coincidence that even for 2g and CWG scams very few Congress ministers have been investigated besides scapegoats like Kalmadi? Mostly CBI has only hounded DMK and NDA ministers.
This government moves more and more from a democracy to an absolute monarcy of Congress ruling family with each passing year. If you people vote for a UPA-III India is doomed and corruption and legal protection of corruption will become order of the day.
@ Mr.Satish Chandra- Can't comment on what u have said as there is no sufficient proof. But if this really has happened, then it is our inability to tackle this electronic-warfare suite. And why US has tried this on India or Pakistan, it should have tested on the chinese.
I saw a paki posing as an indian – Satish Chandra – spew venom on this site against the Chief of the Air Staff.
Initially like most people I felt angry and then realised that his/her ridiculous argument just showed how intelligent these porki islamic jihadi maha-mads are. I read it again and fell laughing over..
On an off note: why do you think they closed the pakistani national library in islamabad?
Continuing from my post above:-
I said on October 11 '11 that the 'suicide' of the chief test pilot Baldev Singh was murder, to facilitate the claim of the fraudulent 'delay' in inducting the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft, being used to justify the worse than worthless purchase abroad. India builds Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft from raw materials; why do you need to buy fighter aircraft from abroad? [At this, A. K. Antony said on November 23 '11 that the Sukhoi-30 MKI assembly line can only make 16 aircraft per year. Why couldn't you set up another assembly line? As soon as I asked this question, the report in Deccan Herald was changed by RAW to eliminate the reference to assembly line limitation and a reference to a Sukhoi-30MKI crash in April '11 — its first ever — was inserted instead, having him say that the Indian Air Force will continue to use the Sukhoi-30MKI despite the crash along with the new aircraft to be bought from abroad and the Light Combat aircraft. The Sukhoi crash on Dec. 13 '11 has been caused 2 days ahead of the purchase decision as the purchase was made impossible by my opposition to it.]
N. A. K. Browne, A. K. Antony and the Italian woman should be booked for the murder of Baldev Singh along with the head of RAW. All former heads of RAW should be booked for the murders of hundreds of Indian Air Force pilots.
When Atal Behari Vajpayee was prime minister, he had once gone to Bombay and spoken to the stock exchange about applying my proposal about money — see 'How India's Economy Can Grow 30% Per Year Or More' in my blog 'Nuclear Supremacy For India Over U.S.' which can be found by a Yahoo/Google search with the title — to India's economy, after which he had to abort his flight back to Delhi for fear his plane will crash. The murders of several politicians by air crash have been accomplished by microwaves from satellites. A recent example was the murder of the Andhra Pradesh chief minister by air crash. In my blog I have described how Indira Gandhi when prime minister in 1980 went to her kitchen with the then U. S. Vice President and former CIA Director, George Herbert Walker Bush, to arrange for the murder by air crash of her son Sanjay Gandhi who had taken to slapping her in the presence of others under my influence and the then CIA Director, Frank Carlucci, publicly claimed credit for that air crash via a letter that appeared in National Review.
See 'What You Should Know About RAW' ar IndianAirForcePilotsMurderDOTblogspotDOTcom by clicking on my name over this post.
@ anonymous: "2 millions per missile"…ahah joker!
Seriously, do you really think the deal is only about missiles?? What about training, tools, spares, test benches, etc?
Choosing MICA for Mirage is a risk-free and technically proven solution. Moreover MICA is much more efficient and versatile (from BVR to short range) than AMRAAM!
So next time use your brain instead of your calculator!
THE 950m EUROS IS ALSO to upgrae the 51 Vajra aircraft to Mk5 standard.
so please chill, good deal. Avionics/Re-wiring/Testing
what do u think shld the charge be? great deal better to have european stuff than american.
Remember before MRCA, IAF loved the vajra aircraft.
no crashes as far as i remember.
If MICA is so efficient at short ranges or WVR, why does that FAF Mirage 2000-5 in the photo carrying Magic 2 besides the MICA?
In any case, if you need to fire WVR, then the long range MICA are not doing their jobs, or you are already shot down long ago
What I have said in my first post above about the peril from microwaves from satellites to the electronics of aircraft and tanks also applies to the electronic fuses for artillery shells which the Indian government is reportedly purchasing from Israel.
There is an 'import lobby' working hard to scupper our own indigenous aircraft industry. Some Senior retired officers (both uniformed and bureaucrats) appear to be working as lobbyists/Indian reps. of aircraft manufacturing firms.
Take for example the Turboprop basic trainer. NAL/HAL had even displayed a 'mock up' of HTT-34, a Turboprop Trainer (resembling the Brazilian TUCANO) at the AERO INDIA show way back in the mid-nineties, but IAF didn't evince any interest then. When the IAF's piston-engined HPT-32s suffered some engine failures a couple of years back, the IAF immediately grounded the whole fleet and approached the govt. to resort to ad-hoc imports to meet their immediate training needs, whereas even direct imports/licence manufacture/assembly take three to five years to fructify.
HAL had also proposed re-engining of the HPT-32 (DEEPAK) with the Allison turboprop engine and had even modified one as 'HTT-34', but the IAF has insisted on importing 75 turboprop trainers like the Swiss PILATUS PC-7/Brazilian Embraer TUCANO/KOREAN KTP trainer.
I really want 2 say that these UPA government sell our country for every bit of Pie i only request to my all Indian's that why we always forget something wrong happen on us and try to be an super man like 2G scam which is unforgettable like CAG report on Coal mine which is totally f road for our country these UPA government gathering money by selling our country natural resource i really feel bad that Mr Manmohan Sing born on our Hind land and doing such a scam with our own mother land why not focus on mnufacture instead of import only ..i really feel sorrow that these Congress UPA government sell our country slowly2 and we became superman by forgiving the they settle their money in Italy or any other foregone country really i want to say from my heart and don't try to see as political that only Mr Atal bihari Vajapaye have the gut's who did the nuclear test and the Mr Narendra Modi who have the Gut's or either we loose our Arunachal Pradesh and have huge amount of loss look every year we grew large amount of grain but we still have no place to keep it properly Mr food minister simply said we need some place to keep or grain safely what kind of minister he is even he can't manage a simple type of manipulation that how we grew grain per capita he have no responsibility to his work or to his country murdabad Congress Murdabad UPA government jai hind hai bhrat maa