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IMAGE / HONEYWELL
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On October 15, the Indian Ministry of Defence sent out an RFP to Honeywell Aerospace for the F125 IN turbofan to re-engine the Indian Air Force’s fleet of Jaguar deep penetration strike aircraft. The RFP puts down a requirement for 270 engines (for 125 Jaguars + additional). Honeywell won by default after Rolls-Royce punched out of the competition last year with its Adour Mk821 offer.
The IAF is keen to conclude the engine deal quickly to keep pace with the rest of the Jaguar upgrade programme, already delayed. The F125 IN was first demonstrated to the IAF in Bangalore five years ago in 2007.
In 2009, while announcing the F125 IN’s participation in the IAF competition, Honeywell had said, “The engine is projected to save the Indian Air Force more than Rs 7,000 Crores ($1.5 billion) in life-cycle costs compared to other upgrade options being considered. The F125IN permits the Jaguar to perform missions never before possible with the current engine.”
i work for honeywell, and i am very glad to hear that!
Go Honeywell+ IAF!!!
-"Touch The Sky With Glory!"
awesome!!! i work for honeywell and am very glad 2 hear that.
Go IAF- touch the sky with glory!
It is a good engine and ideal for a light day fighter in the genre of the MiG Bison/MiG 29.
Let HAL/DRDO examine it and see a "Chinese copy" can be made even at the expense of TBO.The effort should be "how much within this time" …say about 5 years. Or else work on "securing " the engine for Indian Aviation
Chopade :
What exactly is the work you do at honeywell ? Low class testing work for high class code written in US ? Honeywell never outsources critical work to India . What's there to be proud about that ?
That took a while. But finally it's done.
Instead we should try stealthy f 35 for deep penetration strikes inside pakistan and china. At least 20 f 35 s on trial basis. Jaguars are no doubt good performers of its time, but not now.
@Turrebaj Khan I dont know what Chopade might be doing but the fact that he is contributing to development of India and is proud of it is what matters to me most.
@Anon 2:01 Not a good idea. The F35 is THE monumental failure of USA and our air chief has been very wise to steer clear of it. Have faith my friend on FGFA and in future AMCA. I cant say anything about AMCA at this time but FGFA is definitely an F-35 and J-20 beater based on current build alone. Now when we factor in improved engine and components for Indian version we have a killer fifth gen fighter. As Shiv has beautifully put it – Its Su-50 MKI.
Instead we could have bought 50 gripen ng.
We should not blame countries like France,Russia or US for providing us outdated hardware or technologies,eg.mirage,jaguar,mig29,f16,rafale etc were offered to us before any other countries. In most of the cases they have offered us the latest technology maybe slightly costly(as part of business), but it is us who have delayed in acquiring these and made them outdated. Red tapism,bureacracy,unwillingness,fear to take decisions have deteriorated our defence strategy. processes like multi vendor selection hasn't completely guaranteed no corruption, so ultimately who suffers.
Hi Shiv, you being a great Defense Journalist and enthusiast, I would expect a lil more detailed analysis of things from you coz after all, your blogs are the main source of defense news for laymen like me. So it would be really great if your posts can answer a few details like for eg in this one,
In what sense the better engine enhance mission capabilities of jags, how life cycle costs be reduced with this engine and maybe what are other strike aircrafts that India might go for once Jags are decommissioned (a bit too far fetched but still..). Being Chief editor of a such a big news channel like HT is not an easy task and you are doing a great job already but a little effort towards educating few of us out here would be highly appreciated.. just an honest feedback
Turrebaz Khan:
There exists nothing like called a low class work.
Software code testing for all the things in the world is certainly not low class.
You certainly are a living example of your psuedo.
@Shiv I guess this voilates your no personal attack on comments policy.
I don't understand why is India spending money on these obsolete crap planes.
Hello ! Why are we paying billions of dollars to keep and an ancient piece of BRITISH junk flying?
Let's do a simple count of how many planes IAF has or will have: Jaguar, Mirage 2000, Mig 29, Mig 21 (LCA), Mig 27, Su-30, Rafale, T-50, AMCA –> 9 !!!
Let;s see who else is so rich to engage in this lunacy ; NO ONE I can think of comes even close. This is an under the radar way to siphon money via exorbitant spare parts pricing.
We need to invest in the future: AMCA, LCA and stop this madness. Seems at best a really a stupid and desperate move to keep squadron strength up. My two cents: Just make LCA and RAFALE in numbers to keep up if needed.
TIME TO MOVE ON and NOT ROLL BACK !
@ Chetan Chopade
Chetan, this is indeed a moment to be proud of , for you and others that work for Honeywell in India.
I have but one question – the F125IN was supposedly a drop fit replacement. So why is it going to take this long as the report suggests to upgrade the 125 units in the IAF livery –
"The plan is to finish the design and development phase with Honeywell on the initial two fighters by 2015-16. The complete re-engine phase of the remaining 123 fighters will be completed by 2023-24 by HAL under transfer of technology from the US firm".
@ Tarrebaaz Khan
How do you know what work is done at Honeywell India ? You don't even have the brains to understand that Honeywell India is a captive unit of Honeywell and any work sent there wouldn't be considered "Outsourcing".
Just continue to live under the rock you are living under because there are U.S drones circling over your head !
The write up on the F125 engine talks about being capable of afterburning. Is this the case with the IN variant? If so, how does this change the equation? Faster egress after a bomb run? Takeoff performance better? Sounds like a good idea to keep these airframes around for another 10-15 years?
@ turrebaz khan said:
As Subho pointed out, Honeywell India is a part of Honeywell, and so the work is not "outsourcing". Besides, you wouldn't know if they did only testing or much more..would you? Your comment reeks of rather sour grapes…but I suppose its too much to expect folks like you to understand fine nuances.
Anyway, even if it were only "low class testing" work as you put it… it still is way better than being at the receiving end of "high class" munitions delivered thanks to certain Honeywell technologies.. in Pakistan.
But then again, in the quest for eternal virgins, it might be surely better for the likes of you to receive even more "high class" munitions.
@turrebaz khan
"What exactly is the work you do at honeywell ?"
this is what 'honeywell' website says
"Honeywell's presence in India dates back to the 1930s, when refining technology from Honeywell’s UOP was commissioned in India’s very first refinery in the state of Assam. Today, the region is an integral part of Honeywell’s global growth strategy. With more than 12,000 employees, it operates state-of-the-art engineering and manufacturing facilities in Pune, Guragon, Chennai and Dehradun for automation control solutions, turbochargers, and refining. Honeywell also has global centers of excellence for technology and product development across the region. Honeywell recently developed the world’s first turbo technology for a 2-cylinder micro-diesel engine, which is helping to drive a new chapter of ultra fuel-efficient micro vehicles for the growing region."
"What's there to be proud about that ?"
the fact that such a high technology company has established its company only in countries like India, china,Thailand, Korea and Japan and nowhere else in Asia.
obviously,Honeywells' management felt that India could greatly contribute in driving high technology market,it's not just the case of cheap labor,since even our neighboring countries have cheap labor,but honeywell employs none from the neighboring countries.
@turrebaz khan
"What exactly is the work you do at honeywell ?"
this is what 'honeywell' website says
"Honeywell's presence in India dates back to the 1930s, when refining technology from Honeywell’s UOP was commissioned in India’s very first refinery in the state of Assam. Today, the region is an integral part of Honeywell’s global growth strategy. With more than 12,000 employees, it operates state-of-the-art engineering and manufacturing facilities in Pune, Guragon, Chennai and Dehradun for automation control solutions, turbochargers, and refining. Honeywell also has global centers of excellence for technology and product development across the region. Honeywell recently developed the world’s first turbo technology for a 2-cylinder micro-diesel engine, which is helping to drive a new chapter of ultra fuel-efficient micro vehicles for the growing region."
"What's there to be proud about that ?"
the fact that such a high technology company has established its company only in countries like India, china,Thailand, Korea and Japan and nowhere else in Asia.
obviously,Honeywells' management felt that India could greatly contribute in driving high technology market,it's not just the case of cheap labor,since even our neighboring countries have cheap labor,but honeywell employs none from the neighboring countries.
As per info on net… f125 engines even if having same thrust rating… with adour821… will save about 600kgs in weight… for twin engine config…
Rolls punched out? strange!
I wonder when we’l get to see the light of the day. I mean to say there are so many upgradation talks going on in the air like upgradation of Mirage, mig29 UPG, SU 30mki and now jaguars and I mean to say these are only chit chat and no fruitful results ware are seeing coming, every thing is in the air, nothing is materializing. It seems the result of all these upgrades are light-years away from being actual ground reality. I am eagerly awaiting when these so called life extension programs would complete I hope not after 2023. Guys I’m getting so disheartened on the progress shown by our so called defense establishment agencies or self esteemed govt. defense PSU’s they should be called defense harassment agencies.
Turrebaz, Honeywell India has a R&D unit in Hyderabad for avionics systems and a core engineering group in Bangalore as well. The likes of you lack the intelligence to apply for either group.
@turrebaz khan
Your real problem is that Pakis dont even get to sweep the floor of an American IT company let alone do low class test.
Good news and a good step to maintain or increase the quality and quantity of the attack squadron strength.
Guys…the fight is not about the number of squadrons or outsourcing or any other factors.. understand the process is not a computer programming gimmick..press one button n its done..besides ppl who r taking the decisions have spent 30plus years in the field..if there is a decision whether to buy things off hand or hand ovr to white elephant ( aka the HAL) is a concious decision…its easy to sit in ac environment n comment..work in field shoulder to shoulder n u wud know the limitations n xpectations…
as for tou mr. tarrbez khan..wh side r u on? U gve me reason to doubt your loyalties..dorry to say…bt its fact
Guys…the fight is not about the number of squadrons or outsourcing or any other factors.. understand the process is not a computer programming gimmick..press one button n its done..besides ppl who r taking the decisions have spent 30plus years in the field..if there is a decision whether to buy things off hand or hand ovr to white elephant ( aka the HAL) is a concious decision…its easy to sit in ac environment n comment..work in field shoulder to shoulder n u wud know the limitations n xpectations…
as for tou mr. tarrbez khan..wh side r u on? U gve me reason to doubt your loyalties..dorry to say…bt its fact
turrebaz khan ne sahi baat kah di to sabke mirchi lag gayi. sahi baat yahi hai ki ham me se 95% log isi tarah ka kaam karte hain. sahi baat ko accept karna chahiye.
Singh @12:23 AM
atleast we don't kill people… in the name of a religion… the religion which lie… to be peaceful… so now on marginalize anyone… who lie to be peaceful…
I feel with low specific fuel consumption and reduced weight and markedly increased thrust particularly with F 125 X and F125xx engines lot of extra power can be generated and with latest upgrade of autopilot it can fly very fast in terrain hugging mode with more payload with markedly increased range it would be markedly improved plane which evan F 16 block 52 would find it difficult to chase at those low heights at sustained distances and with low range of air to air missile at low heights.It is difficult to stop this new upgraded plane. I feel IJT should have non afterburner version of the F 125 as it isa modern well tested engine which is reliable.It is high time AL 55 engine be replaced with non afterburning version of the F125.
TIMBAKTOO
I am an Indian and Hyderabadi.
Try to understand what I said guys.
Supposing you are an employee of Apple India. Now lets say the defence ministry decides to use apple's server software on its critical machines.
Now an apple india employee comes to this thread and says "Yaaay ! I am proud to be an apple employee."
Whats there to be proud about that when Apple doesn't even farm the server software development work to India. Maybe it just uses its India unit for testing its software.
Now similarily this is a proven engine from Honeywell. Designed and developed in the US. Now when Honeywell decides to fund a greenfield project to design and develop an engine for the IJT Sitara from the groundup and in India , then there is reason to be proud.
But until then Honeywell is just another company which NEVER EVER farms critical defence work to India.
Folks ,
Why cant we keep it simple ? Jag has served us well and we still manufacture it. With Mig 27 being superanannuated soon , the improved Jags can easily fit the bill until a new generation takes over. Preparedness demands that by the time we say goodbye to 27's an equivalant number of Jags are there to take over. Interdiction will still be required in all our wars to come.
My apologies Turrebaz for the others assuming you are Pakistani because you're Muslim. No one is used to Muslims in the mainstream since their educated elite went over during partition – behraal there is a new Indian muslim middle class and it is very sad if any Indian has to prove his Indianness twice over – regardless of Chetan being happy or not – its not Honeywell's fault – technology is the biggest advantage the West has and unlike China we cant copycat it – India will have to walk the hard route of serial failure withut losing steam before it becomes the 5th or 6th country in the world that can build a jet engine