you all forget one thing "law of karma or pralabdha" and this world works under this law
contract will go to those who are about to get jobs from this deal or make money from this deal doesn't matter if the fighter is most advanced or least advanced
Hi, guys Late but, the field trails are going to commenced from next week and first fighter aircraft is not other then American Boeing's F-18F SUPER HORNET. Few days ago Australian Air force inducted F-18F SUPER HORNET [BLOCK-II] with most modern F-18F [BLOCK-II] with AESA Radar.
If advanced and cutting edge technology is the main criteria for the selection, then I would prefer the Typhoon or the Rafale for the MMRCA. They would be still relevant in terms of airframe and technology for the next 20 odd years in Asia.
If India can get the US to give a sanction-proof without too much arm twisting during a war with the Pakis, the F-18 superbug would be the best in terms of technology and advanced radar but can we trust Uncle Sam whose foreign and defence policies are US-centric?
We have had enough Russian aircrafts for more than 5 decades. It is better to move on to better state-of-the-art aircrafts. Even the Gripen would suffice.
Hi Shiv, Just came and browsed through Livefist after a longish while… I must say the blog rocks. It has a really cool, contemporary look, is organised brilliantly, and has lots of information and pics. It shall now be on my regular itinerary! See ya! Ajai
I think have been thinking, the best reasons for buying the SuperHornet: it is a carrier aircraft, is the toughness aircraft in the compitition and could serve on the Vikramaditya and Vikrant and thus serv as backu to MiG; if go this way then should buy Growler as well.
My Bet is on SAAB JAS 39 GRIPEN IN Because it is cheap and is favorite of IAF's pilot. Powered be GE 404 Engine which is same in Indian TEJAS Aircraft.
With some issue with American, not allow Israel to supply some equipment to SAAB, SAAB assured that it will provide the in version of GRIPEN IN to India in give time. Later, it will be equipped with AESA Radar or IAF can also go for GRIPEN NG which was launched last year.
Some interesting figures- no of T/R modules in various AESA radars and their planned in service date. Rafael – RBE2 – 1000 – 2012 F16 IN – AGP80 – 1000 – in service F18 SH – AGP79 – 1100 – in service Typhoon – CAESAR – 1425 – 2013 GripenIN – Vixen1000ES – 1000 – 2015 Mig 35 – Zhuk-AE/FGA35 – 1064 – ??
Any person who opposes the F-18E is a secret enemy of India, or one of those head-waggling babus who have caused disaster after disaster in India's military procurement history.
Hint to Indians: buy something that is proven to work, irrespective of historical ties, dogmatic superpower hatred, personal cheapness, or wishful, amateurish dreaming or overweening nationalism.
… "Indian forces riddled with expensive 'duds'
30 Jul 2009, 1454 hrs IST
TIMES NOW's Senior Editor Srinjoy Chowdhury, who has exclusive access to the 'Dud report' says, "The Indian Air Force's armory is full of duds with missiles that don't work and bombs that don't explore."
Specifically, the Harpy missile procured from Israel for a whopping Rs 750 crores lies useless after it developed direction trouble.
The Popeye II missile that costs Rs 350 crores, which is an air to surface missile, that never even passed the initial tests since the wings were faulty.
The Sea Eagle — a subsonic anti-ship missile which cost close to a Rs 120 crores is no longer usable as the components are not available.
Meanwhile, anti-radiation missiles, some of which were procured from Russia have malfunctional seekers — parts that used to seek out the target.
Srinjoy adds, "Many foreign weapon systems tested in very pristine conditions just don't seem to be effective in India. Yet there are indigenous weapon systems that have failed as well."
I am not sure about either F/A-18 or F-16. Getting too close to and too dependant on the USA is fraught with danger. We should learn from the Pakistani experience. Pakistan has been a close ally of the US for 60 years and yet they suffer at the hands of an arbitrary US senate/congress. It is time to move away from Migs now, as it is we have the SUs and also are in the FGFA. Gripen has been weakened due to US denial of Israeli electronics. That leaves us with the Eurofighters or Rafaels. With the latest sweeteners being offered, the Eurofighter is the best bet.
Whats the point in F18? do we get TOT ??? How do ensure there no arm twisting in the future? For all the hue and cry about AESA do any of our potential enemies have it? if not why should that be most imp point ?
I think the IAF after the trials will be in the best position to judge which is the best aircraft for thier needs, we armchair generals can rest till then.
Personally I see a lot of plus points of Mig 1)No need to create new infrstructure, we alreay have expertise and experience with russian stuff. 2)Cost 3)New technology of Mig-35 can be used to upgrade mig-29, su-30mki 4)We are already cosing up to USA but at the same time we have to keep our old friends(russians) close too, we dont want their stuff in the hands of enemies
Lastly for all those sceptical about babugiri and neta bribes, pls remember we have come a long way and as Indians citizens we have to hope and more iportantly DEMAND the best from our goverment.
Mr Antony has proven to be a clean man and we have to force his successors to follow the same line. (Even as I write this comment, there is a act being debated which will compel judges to declare their assests to the public)
First off, I'm Indian but a Pakistani. Secondly, if you don't wanna be anybody's bitch go for the Rafale, Mig-35 or Typhoon. Whatever you select, there should be over 70% transfer of technology. Personally I'd go for the Rafale or Typhoon. If Russia can assure the IAF of no delays in providing spares then Mig-35. Learn from Pakistan, what America gives with the one hand it takes from the other.
1) Do not buy russian, because IAF seem to have enough problems to keep their airplanes in the air at reasonable cost.
2) Do not buy american. They make good airplanes, but it is a slippery slope were India through ever expanding "cooperation" will find they become a puppet, great power or not. You will never be free again.
3) European. Yes, because they do not search leverage over India and they makes good and reliable airplanes. I guess Eurofighter and Rafale offer best political benefits, so I would go for one of those. Gripen offer much value for the bucks, but considering similarities with indigenous LCA it would be a strange choise, (unless LCA more or less fail).
No ones weapons suck. Not russian not indian and not from israel or the west. It is just how these weapons are used in your war fighting philosophy that matters. Each of the MRCA contenders is a great aircraft, each will meet IAF's RFP on the due date, so they all will have met the basic requirement that the IAF is looking for. From then on it is a matter of which aircraft suits indian interests best, cost effectiveness is a secondary criteria for India with the economy on a roll.
As far as the pakistani advice to weigh the relationship with the US carefully, not take a blind plunge, yada yada. You have to remember that the US-Pakistan relationship is a fairly one sided one, where the US has literally kept Pakistan afloat for 63 years, Pakistan could only be of help during the soviet occupation of afghanistan, and in the backdoor diplomacy with the chinese. Seriously, the pakistanis need to ask themselves, what have they contributed to their relationship with the US? Even today, they are more than eager to bite the hand that feeds them – literally.
The Indo-US relationship is going to be like the Japanese-US relationship. Two large economies benefiting mutually from trade, military and political ties. The entire scale of the Indo-US relationship is several several notches above the caregiver-receiver relationship that the US has with pakistan.
i appretiate GAGAN'S statement that all aircrafts are excellent machines best systems these countries can produce,they can't sell what they can't produce
so all aircrafts are excellent and now it depends on govt
No brainer there, Indo-US relationship is on a different level. Keeping them afloat for 63 yrs? Don't think so, buddy. America has been a fair-weather friend, like you mentioned Afghan and China.
Arey Gagan, you obviously do not understand US-Japan relationship. Go ask any self-respecting Japanese worth his salt what he thinks of this post WW2 neutered relationship.
Then again, the long term military goal of the Indo-US relationship is for India to police the region and keep China in check. So as long as you don't step on Uncle Sam's toes, it should be fine.
Just don't sell your soul to baseball, apple pie and rock&roll like your neighbour or Japan.
Anon @1:39PM Biradher, Likewise go and ask the average american which car he wil buy. 90% will prefer a Japanese car to the three dickhead detroit car manufacturers. Imagine what that means to the self-respecting American that the post WW2 neutered Japan sells cars in the US, while the US's own companies are going bust inspite of a nationalistic campaign launched by them to buy american.
The way the Indo-US relationship is going with Kangress in power, do you realistically think India will be any different than Japan? The word Neutered might not be used officially, but the fact is, that the more involved india is with the world, the more stake that the world has within india, the more tied India's hands will be(For that matter any nation that is deeply integrated with the world economy).
We might have the freedom to do a lot of things, but these will be within a certain bandwidth onlee.
They have never been friendly. Not a decade ago, not a year ago, not yesterday. Never. They have always supported agression against us by propping pakistan financially, supplying them with weapons, allowing them to get nukes and so on. Over 50,000 Indians have died due to US sponsored agression and countless have become handicapped. It is only traitors in Indian media (who are practically on the payroll of US state department) that try to sell this US-India "friendship", they know the common Indic is too awed by white skin of his western masters to look at the facts dispassionately. Indians are willing to delude themselves, the US is only willing to exploit this delusion.
Photos Copyright Shiv Aroor / Pacific Strike Fighter Wing, US Naval Air Station LeMoore, California
I am all for the Rafale.
I am in for a Mig 35
you all forget one thing
"law of karma or pralabdha" and this world works under this law
contract will go to those who are about to get jobs from this deal or make money from this deal doesn't matter if the fighter is most advanced or least advanced
Hi, guys
Late but, the field trails are going to commenced from next week and first fighter aircraft is not other then American Boeing's F-18F SUPER HORNET. Few days ago Australian Air force inducted F-18F SUPER HORNET [BLOCK-II] with most modern F-18F [BLOCK-II] with AESA Radar.
For more Picture Log on to my blog:
http://air-ace.blogspot.com/
I am in for Typhoon
lets hope for the best I have my fingers crossed
If advanced and cutting edge technology is the main criteria for the selection, then I would prefer the Typhoon or the Rafale for the MMRCA. They would be still relevant in terms of airframe and technology for the next 20 odd years in Asia.
If India can get the US to give a sanction-proof without too much arm twisting during a war with the Pakis, the F-18 superbug would be the best in terms of technology and advanced radar but can we trust Uncle Sam whose foreign and defence policies are US-centric?
We have had enough Russian aircrafts for more than 5 decades. It is better to move on to better state-of-the-art aircrafts. Even the Gripen would suffice.
I am for a mix of Mig & Rafale….
Hi Shiv,
Just came and browsed through Livefist after a longish while… I must say the blog rocks. It has a really cool, contemporary look, is organised brilliantly, and has lots of information and pics.
It shall now be on my regular itinerary!
See ya!
Ajai
I am for spitfire!
i am for F-16 with AESA
I think have been thinking, the best reasons for buying the SuperHornet: it is a carrier aircraft, is the toughness aircraft in the compitition and could serve on the Vikramaditya and Vikrant and thus serv as backu to MiG; if go this way then should buy Growler as well.
HI,
HAPPY FRIENDSHIP DAY TO EVERYONE…
My Bet is on SAAB JAS 39 GRIPEN IN
Because it is cheap and is favorite of IAF's pilot. Powered be GE 404 Engine which is same in Indian TEJAS Aircraft.
With some issue with American, not allow Israel to supply some equipment to SAAB, SAAB assured that it will provide the in version of GRIPEN IN to India in give time.
Later, it will be equipped with AESA Radar or IAF can also go for GRIPEN NG which was launched last year.
1. Gripen NG-MKI.
2. Gripen NG-MKI.
3. Gripen NG-MKI.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
?. F-18.
?+1. F-16.
That's all.
Some interesting figures-
no of T/R modules in various AESA radars and their planned in service date.
Rafael – RBE2 – 1000 – 2012
F16 IN – AGP80 – 1000 – in service
F18 SH – AGP79 – 1100 – in service
Typhoon – CAESAR – 1425 – 2013
GripenIN – Vixen1000ES – 1000 – 2015
Mig 35 – Zhuk-AE/FGA35 – 1064 – ??
we should get 500 mig 21 and use a remote controlled robot to fly them and defeat the enemies.
Any person who opposes the F-18E is a secret enemy of India, or one of those head-waggling babus who have caused disaster after disaster in India's military procurement history.
Hint to Indians: buy something that is proven to work, irrespective of historical ties, dogmatic superpower hatred, personal cheapness, or wishful, amateurish dreaming or overweening nationalism.
…
"Indian forces riddled with expensive 'duds'
30 Jul 2009, 1454 hrs IST
TIMES NOW's Senior Editor Srinjoy Chowdhury, who has exclusive access to the 'Dud report' says, "The Indian Air Force's armory is full of duds with missiles that don't work and bombs that don't explore."
Specifically, the Harpy missile procured from Israel for a whopping Rs 750 crores lies useless after it developed direction trouble.
The Popeye II missile that costs Rs 350 crores, which is an air to surface missile, that never even passed the initial tests since the wings were faulty.
The Sea Eagle — a subsonic anti-ship missile which cost close to a Rs 120 crores is no longer usable as the components are not available.
Meanwhile, anti-radiation missiles, some of which were procured from Russia have malfunctional seekers — parts that used to seek out the target.
Srinjoy adds, "Many foreign weapon systems tested in very pristine conditions just don't seem to be effective in India. Yet there are indigenous weapon systems that have failed as well."
http://www.timesnow.tv/Indian-forces-riddled-with-expensive-duds/articleshow/4323554.cms
ALL THE BEST RAFALE…..
I am not sure about either F/A-18 or F-16. Getting too close to and too dependant on the USA is fraught with danger. We should learn from the Pakistani experience. Pakistan has been a close ally of the US for 60 years and yet they suffer at the hands of an arbitrary US senate/congress.
It is time to move away from Migs now, as it is we have the SUs and also are in the FGFA. Gripen has been weakened due to US denial of Israeli electronics. That leaves us with the Eurofighters or Rafaels. With the latest sweeteners being offered, the Eurofighter is the best bet.
Whats the point in F18? do we get TOT ??? How do ensure there no arm twisting in the future? For all the hue and cry about AESA do any of our potential enemies have it? if not why should that be most imp point ?
I think the IAF after the trials will be in the best position to judge which is the best aircraft for thier needs, we armchair generals can rest till then.
Personally I see a lot of plus points of Mig
1)No need to create new infrstructure, we alreay have expertise and experience with russian stuff.
2)Cost
3)New technology of Mig-35 can be used to upgrade mig-29, su-30mki
4)We are already cosing up to USA but at the same time we have to keep our old friends(russians) close too, we dont want their stuff in the hands of enemies
Lastly for all those sceptical about babugiri and neta bribes, pls remember we have come a long way and as Indians citizens we have to hope and more iportantly DEMAND the best from our goverment.
Mr Antony has proven to be a clean man and we have to force his successors to follow the same line.
(Even as I write this comment, there is a act being debated which will compel judges to declare their assests to the public)
First off, I'm Indian but a Pakistani. Secondly, if you don't wanna be anybody's bitch go for the Rafale, Mig-35 or Typhoon. Whatever you select, there should be over 70% transfer of technology. Personally I'd go for the Rafale or Typhoon. If Russia can assure the IAF of no delays in providing spares then Mig-35. Learn from Pakistan, what America gives with the one hand it takes from the other.
Hi,
Here is my thoughts:
1) Do not buy russian, because IAF seem to have enough problems to keep their airplanes in the air at reasonable cost.
2) Do not buy american. They make good airplanes, but it is a slippery slope were India through ever expanding "cooperation" will find they become a puppet, great power or not. You will never be free again.
3) European. Yes, because they do not search leverage over India and they makes good and reliable airplanes. I guess Eurofighter and Rafale offer best political benefits, so I would go for one of those. Gripen offer much value for the bucks, but considering similarities with indigenous LCA it would be a strange choise, (unless LCA more or less fail).
Except that Russian weapons suck and when the Reds come again, most of the people here will be head waggling and crying into their masala and chai.
And making excuses for Russian weapons of course. In Kargil, should so many Indian jawans have died?
No ones weapons suck. Not russian not indian and not from israel or the west.
It is just how these weapons are used in your war fighting philosophy that matters.
Each of the MRCA contenders is a great aircraft, each will meet IAF's RFP on the due date, so they all will have met the basic requirement that the IAF is looking for. From then on it is a matter of which aircraft suits indian interests best, cost effectiveness is a secondary criteria for India with the economy on a roll.
As far as the pakistani advice to weigh the relationship with the US carefully, not take a blind plunge, yada yada. You have to remember that the US-Pakistan relationship is a fairly one sided one, where the US has literally kept Pakistan afloat for 63 years, Pakistan could only be of help during the soviet occupation of afghanistan, and in the backdoor diplomacy with the chinese. Seriously, the pakistanis need to ask themselves, what have they contributed to their relationship with the US? Even today, they are more than eager to bite the hand that feeds them – literally.
The Indo-US relationship is going to be like the Japanese-US relationship. Two large economies benefiting mutually from trade, military and political ties. The entire scale of the Indo-US relationship is several several notches above the caregiver-receiver relationship that the US has with pakistan.
First off, I'm Indian but a Pakistani.
You sound confused, just like millions of Indian muslims. First sit in a corner and decide which country you belong to, then post here.
i appretiate GAGAN'S statement that all aircrafts are excellent machines best systems these countries can produce,they can't sell what they can't produce
so all aircrafts are excellent and now it depends on govt
No brainer there, Indo-US relationship is on a different level. Keeping them afloat for 63 yrs? Don't think so, buddy. America has been a fair-weather friend, like you mentioned Afghan and China.
Arey Gagan, you obviously do not understand US-Japan relationship. Go ask any self-respecting Japanese worth his salt what he thinks of this post WW2 neutered relationship.
Then again, the long term military goal of the Indo-US relationship is for India to police the region and keep China in check. So as long as you don't step on Uncle Sam's toes, it should be fine.
Just don't sell your soul to baseball, apple pie and rock&roll like your neighbour or Japan.
My 2 paisas 🙂
Anon @1:39PM
Biradher,
Likewise go and ask the average american which car he wil buy. 90% will prefer a Japanese car to the three dickhead detroit car manufacturers. Imagine what that means to the self-respecting American that the post WW2 neutered Japan sells cars in the US, while the US's own companies are going bust inspite of a nationalistic campaign launched by them to buy american.
The way the Indo-US relationship is going with Kangress in power, do you realistically think India will be any different than Japan? The word Neutered might not be used officially, but the fact is, that the more involved india is with the world, the more stake that the world has within india, the more tied India's hands will be(For that matter any nation that is deeply integrated with the world economy).
We might have the freedom to do a lot of things, but these will be within a certain bandwidth onlee.
My two paisa.
America has been a fair-weather friend
They have never been friendly. Not a decade ago, not a year ago, not yesterday. Never. They have always supported agression against us by propping pakistan financially, supplying them with weapons, allowing them to get nukes and so on. Over 50,000 Indians have died due to US sponsored agression and countless have become handicapped. It is only traitors in Indian media (who are practically on the payroll of US state department) that try to sell this US-India "friendship", they know the common Indic is too awed by white skin of his western masters to look at the facts dispassionately. Indians are willing to delude themselves, the US is only willing to exploit this delusion.