India’s Arjun main battle tank, possibly the country’s longest and most trouble-ridden armament programme, has just hit the latest in a history of formidable hurdles. And it’s a big one. One that amplifies the programme’s inextricable quality as a faraway castle that will never be fully realised by its makers or embraced by its customer, a tragicomic meandering that began with a requirement, stupefyingly enough, right after India’s 1971 war with Pakistan. In the tech world, the Arjun would be veritably vaporware.
If you’ve tracked the Arjun tank’s journey, you know that the platform’s weight has been a key factor slowing its acceptance by the Indian Army. Now, over 100 Arjun Mk.I tanks are operational across two tank regiments in India’s western desert sector. The beefed up, improved Arjun Mk.II, of which the Indian Army in 2014 indicated its official interest in procuring 118, is currently going through the paces to prove the smorgasbord of capability upgrades and add-ons. But a new, yet familiar, flashpoint has now presented itself, providing the sharpest sense of deja vu for the team proving the tank. And it has just been detailed in an easy-to-miss report by India’s Standing Committee on Defence in the country’s Parliament.
The Indian Army wants the DRDO to fully redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull and turret structures and use newer materials to replace the conventional structure, in an effort to ‘achieve a reasonable reduction in weight, without removing any of the major improvements’. The Arjun Mk.II currently weighs 68.6 tons — a full six tons over the MK.I, owning entirely to the 73 improvements the Army demanded on the newer tank. The Army has stated, in no uncertain terms, that the 68.6 ton weight of the Arjun Mk.II is too much for ‘seamless application in semi-developed and developed sectors of the Western Front’. In other words, the Arjun Mk.II, the Army says, can’t be forward deployed beyond the deserts, in the event of active hostilities with Pakistan. But more on that a little later.
Livefist can confirm that on September 27 last year, the DRDO was left with no choice but to initiate an exercise to redesign the hull/turret structures on the Arjun Mk.II. At at meeting that included DRDO chief S. Christopher, the Army’s Deputy Chief for Policy & Systems and the Director General Mechanised Forces, the DRDO fought the recommendation, stating that ‘redesign of hull/turret including use of advanced armour material is not recommended considering the long development and validation cycle’. It was a painful blow — while the DRDO was hoping to accelerate trials in an effort to nudge the Indian Army into doubling its order for 118 Arjun Mk.II tanks had just been told even the existing ones weren’t really good enough for full operational use. The DRDO’s Combat Vehicles laboratory near Chennai has begun the weight reduction/redesign exercise, with an ambitious target of March 2018 to demonstrate a weight reduction of 3 tons. The DRDO will need to demonstrate each module separately to the Indian Army.
The story doesn’t really end there. In fact it gets more perplexing. While the DRDO gets busy trying to redesign the Arjun Mk.II’s hull/turret structures and use new materials, the Army has already written off the exercise. In fact, at the very same September 2016 meeting where the DRDO committed to a 3 ton weight reduction, the Army stated, ‘There are no major advantages from tactical and operational point of view with 65 t weight reduction also. It is felt that even weight reduction to 62 tons (equal to that of Arjun MBT Mk-I) may not provide any significant tactical/ operational advantages.’
In other words, the Army believes the weight reduction exercise is fundamentally useless. Worse, the Army projects that the ‘cycle time for 65 ton weight reductions of Arjun MBT Mk-II and validation will take about four to six years for successful acceptance by user after trials/procedures.’ The Army clearly has a real problem here — and this could be indicative of government pressure to press on with the programme.
The DRDO, which was hoping the Arjun tank had finally turned the corner, transforming an adversarial relationship with its main customer into one of comfort, has hit another stone wall with the Army. While insisting that the Arjun Mk.II has ‘exhibited the required performance in all aspects of agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in the desert and semi-desert terrains during various phases of user trials’ and that it is ‘confident that that Arjun Mk.II will have requisite agility, mobility and other operational/functional parameters in various developed and semi developed terrains also’, the DRDO is also wondering why the Army is averse to a proposal to operationally compare the Arjun Mk.II with the T-90 (a comparison that was conducted over a decade ago on the Mk.I). According to the DRDO, “As directed by Hon’ble RM (Defence Minister), DRDO requested Army for mobility comparative trials with the Arjun MBT Mk-II even with 68.6 t’ along with T-90 to prove its tactical and operational mobility aspects in all envisaged terrains (including developed and semi developed terrains) for its future employability. However, Army intimated that Arjun MBT Mk-II and T90 are of different class & weight classification and their deployment is as per assigned operational roles. Arjun MBT has operational employment restrictions to specific sectors (desert/semi desert) being heavy tank. Therefore, Army intimated that the conduct of comparative mobility trials is not required.”
Even if all goes well, it is now clear that the Arjun Mk.II will only be fully deployable if the government beefs up road/bridge infrastructure to able to handle the tank’s heft. That alone is an alarming development that adds pressure on a system beyond the Army’s direct control. The Arjun family of tanks are principally for a potential war with Pakistan. The tanks are too heavy to be airlifted to any of the sectors India currently shares with China. And the new deployability concerns rule out moving them there by rail either.
What has further eroded the DRDO’s case for the Arjun is the fact that over 100 (of 124) Arjun Mk.I tanks have remained grounded since mid-2015 over a shocking unavailability of foreign spare parts — a deeply ironic situation for a platform that was meant, in part, to preclude precisely such a pitfall. While reports suggest the grounded Mk.Is are to begin rolling again soon, the grounding has slung additional mud on the overall Arjun ownership experience. It was the last thing the DRDO needed as it attempted to build a case for more Arjun sales to the Army.
The redesign exercise on the Mk.II shackles the Arjun tank to its endless, looping development and proving cycle — one that it hasn’t been able to break out of for decades. Top sources in the Army say that while there is government pressure to endorse the Arjun tank as an Indian product, the Army doesn’t believe it makes sense to buy more of a tank that will be operationally restricted to the desert/semi-desert sectors of the west. A maximum of four or five Arjun regiments across variants is what the Army believes it needs, given what the tank has been proven to be capable of. If the weight reduction exercise doesn’t work out, the Army takes delivery of those 118 Arjun Mk.IIs on schedule and will certainly not order any more. If it does work out, it remains to be seen if the Army will sign up for additional units. Couple this with larger numbers of the T-90S and the preliminary Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FCRV) effort, the Arjun’s onward roll gets infinitely steeper.
The Arjun programme, as the DRDO has said before, is a dead loss if the Army doesn’t order more than 500 tanks in total. Right now, the numbers are nowhere close. Nothing is.
Something I’d fishy here first the Army says, ” we want improvement on mk1″.
DRDO- Okay. Product ready.
Army- Oh…but you see this is overweight now!
If I am not wrong previously Army has also not been able to specify the calibre of the gun.
Now I guess they failed to mention that these tanks need to fight on the border and not just roll out on Rajpath.
** I’d— is
IA will learn its lessons in tank battles against T80-Oplots the hard way soon… T-90-Bishmas do not stand a chance against the superior T80-Oplots and only Arjuns can handle this category of MBT’s…..
Dev:
“Now I guess they failed to mention that these tanks need to fight on the border ”
—-
Really Dev? Does the Army need to spell out even this most basic fact? Also, do you realize that with the added weight, the BFATs are rendered useless. Improvements on Mk1 were essential to make Arjun catch up with today’s technology. Try and see the weight reduction as one of these improvements.
A client who doesnt known what it needs, as article stated weight increased due to army new requirement, dont they do some basic ground work and gather info before giving requirements, or is it like google and take printouts
You forgot operation desert storm
Americans won we a heavy m1a1 Abraham tanks against Iraq in a desert
Army Brass needs to be hang for treason as because of them indigenous arms are not being development of made, and scales of production are not being used to indigence further. There is so much a prototype can be modified , and only by production can other problem be solved like weight reduction. IF we used an indigenous engine which we do not because of lack of orders maybe this would have solved the problems of the tank.
Not true… if a prototype is flawed you can tweak it and produce a final product that fits in with the scale of requirements. Arjun, has drained so much money and produced a white elephant that is more for display then combat. A few mention able problems
1. It cannot be transported by rail it’s too wide.
2. It’s too heavy for most bridges
3. Will sink in soft sand and boggy terrain
4. No local engine
5. Too square a target
6. Not fast enough, low range of operation
The list goes on and on….. The bottom line is, scrap the tank…. stop throwing money at a failure. Or if there is a war and these tanks are in quantities over 500 then don’t be surprised if the majority are off road or break down or simply fail to reach target zone for one of the few reasons / problems quoted.
1) Why did the Army in the first place wanted a 4 person tank? Also u are wrong saying that it is not transportable by train, they have already developed bogie flats that can be used to transport ARJUN tanks.
2) The newly built bridges have the capacity of carrying ARJUN tanks.
3) This is an outright lie, ground pressure per HP of ARJUN is less than the tin can T-90
4) Buy 500 tanks, the engine can be built in India.
5) ARJUN can move faster than T-90 and can shoot better while moving than T-90. Also it can take a HIT better than the tin-can.
6) ARJUN is faster than T-90
read the CAG report on the comparative trials of T-90 and ARJUN and how the testing parameters for ARJUn were way more higher than T-90. read that report before talking like a arms broker.
Shiv should have posted this image from the CAG report along with this blog post
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5kbqZLCQAIo_V2.png:large
1. Wrong. Read up on BFAT.
2. True but bridges can always be upgraded from Class 40 to Class 70. Won’t be a big expense though it may take time.
3. Wrong. Has a lower ground pressure than T90.
4. Does T90 have a local engine?
5. Its all the same to a modern FCS
6. Its comparable to a T90 and nobody screams across a desert. Road speed is irrelevant.
An Arjun can totally cream a T90 in terms of firepower and protection.
Yeah you are right it’s reatards like you keeping the country together with your keyboard and internet connection. Have you ever driven a Arjun? No? Don’t comment then.
Sanjay:
“Army Brass needs to be hang for treason as because of them indigenous arms are not being development of made”
——
Completely incorrect Sanjay. The Army has whole heatedly adopted a number of Indigenous weapon systems. The Rudra, ALH, Brahmos, Pinaka, Prithvi and multiple Radar systems are just a few of them. On the horizon are new ones like Dhanush and LCH.
If anyone needs to be punished, it is the likes of you, who are supercharged with emotion but lack basic ability of reasoning and logic.
True they keep on changing their needs
If you need a medium sized mbt
Tell that only
Even I am also shocked to find same thing every where .They keep on changing requirements.Also hesitate to accept indigenous products.I thing when they T-90 and earlier version of Arjun MK-1 cant they do some mock practice to test the capabilities.
Try indian private companies like reliance and tata
Probably should dump the Arjun mk2 and start a new program with the army as project lead and drdo designer.Rope in private industry to design and make parts like engine (Tata) ,Gun(Kalyani) and armor (mku)
That EXACTLY is the problem. Army has NO idea what it wants. Just look at their FCV RFPs. They didn’t even specify what they want.
And then what they want changes every 2 years as the Armoured Chief changes and the new one has a different idea.
Which project can complete successfully in such an environment?
So Indian Army first asks for a HEAVY tank when Pakistan was rumoured to buy heavy American tanks .
Throws a tantrum about weight when it was built according to what they demanded originally.
Demanded more features in Mark II which increased the weight further.
Refuses comparative trials between Arnjun Mk II and T90 mostly because T-90 has been trounced by Arjun Mark I not too long back.
Now is incompetent/shameless/confused enough to ask for weight reduction in Mark II while at the same time claiming that it’ll be useless too ?
Just for comparison, following are weights of some contemporary tanks :
Challenger 2 : 62 t
Leopard 2 : 68 t
Merkava : 65 t +
M1 Abrams – 72 t
Funny to see that all of modern battle tanks except for T-90 weigh almost same as Arjun, have been deployed in almost every terrain and offer much better armour, crew protection, mobility and fire power than T-90s which can’t even work in hot weather and in dark.
What kind of moronic brown sahibs of Indian army are in charge of this fiasco ?
I agree. Denying a comparative analysis with the T-90 is not fair with Arjun. If you add new features then the product is bound to get heavy.
Further, we lack a lot in supportive private/public sector industries for support. We do not have established engine technology. Let me remind you, not even cars. Most of car and bike engines are results of ToT or licensed production. And in case of defence products, no country is going to share (ToT) crucial technology with us. Hence due to lack of support from industry, DRDO needs to all parts or import it.
We need to push money to build infrastructure for development of private industries which can help Defence manufacturing promptly.
Some on suggested to make Army Project leads. I support this idea. Involve user agency Army/Navy/AirForce more actively rather than just as a user representative. These organisation too recruit engineers of all trades, why cannot be they be a part of design and development team. And finally let every one share the credit of success or failure of product. Why should only DRDO be blamed. Why these our defences forces keep on sleeping during the product designing and development ( there is always a user representative attached with projects) and wakes up at the time of deliver and rejects it. Classic cases are Arjun tank and LCA for Navy.
There were news in media regarding comparative trials between T-90 and Arjun Mk-I. And there were reports favouring MBT Arjun MK-I. Now what is the reason for Army denying comparative trials between MBT Arjun MK-II and T-90? If it was logical to do the trial earlier then what is the issue now.
If we want to stand tall then we need to come together shedding our egos. Hope that day will come soon.
I suggest the same thing.I know army is respectable and we should not questioned about there experience .But comparative trials should be done .As far a I know most
battle proven and lethal tanks currently available are compared with Arjun in terms of weight.
Army men especially officers are arrogant and dont listen at all. What they belive in foregin arms. Well do ahead and meet your destiny.
1) Army’s leadership have been openly appreciative of Arjun’s superior accuracy and firepower. New comparative trials will prove nothing but provide soundbytes to unfairly skew logic.
2) All the Western Tanks you have listed, including American M1, were designed to defend Western Europe, designed to fight alongside each other, employing similar tactics and for the same set of Strategic objective. Thus, no wonder, they are so similar.
3) The problem is that the Arjun is unsuitable for our Army’s requirements. The Indian Armoured corps, made up of approx. 2000+ T-72s and 2000 T-90s (including planned ones), is structured along Soviet approach to Armoured warfare, i.e. that of overwhelming enemy forces with sheer numbers. Officers and Soldiers have endlessly trained and honed these tactics for years and built infrastructure, systems, processes and contingency plans, centred on these tactics. Should that entire strategy be redefined, officers and soldiers retrained and supply chain reinvented, just so that Arjun can be made our MBT? While it is completely possible, and probably desirable, Modernization of the Army into being less manpower intensive and more technologically advanced force, is a long-term and expensive proposition, that needs to be tackled holistically and cannot be carried out in isolation, in the Armoured corps alone.
So, No, it is not a case of Brown Sahibs! It is a case of people who are charged with defending your country and who will live and die by the decesions they make.
Don’t act like a fool and keep saying that Arjun is good or unnecessarily ask for comparison with T90. Arjun is better than T90 but Pakistan has dug canals to prevent tanks from india from entering pakistan. India needs to lay down temporary bridges to carry its tanks across. This means weightvhas to be below 60tons. Anything else is plain bullshit and should be ignored
> Funny to see that all of modern battle tanks except for T-90 weigh almost same as Arjun
all those “modern” tanks that weigh 60+ tonnes are 2nd generation
T-90, Type 10, K2 and Leclerc are 3rd generation tanks. Of course they weigh less while being superior – that’s textbook case of generational leap
> offer much better armour, crew protection, mobility and fire power than T-90s which can’t even work in hot weather and in dark.
Did you make this hogwash up yourself or simply regurgitate someone else’s drivel?
They are not even deploying them anywhere and complaining about it’s use
Do they really test them??
1. GoI should force the tank down the army’s throat
2. Media should be kept out of this.
3. The only thing the media and the armywalas are allowed to report is everything is good, great about indigenous programs
This has to be done to give an even playing field to indigenous systems.
The IA suddenly loses its voice when Russian tin cans and trash repeatedly fails, but when a desi DRDO product gives the slightest hint of developmental pangs, they start yelling from the high towers.
Idiots of the biggest order
Hello RamRam,
Your analysis is deeply emotional but factually incorrect.
The Army has whole heatedly adopted a number of Indigenous weapon systems. The Rudra, ALH, Brahmos, Pinaka, Prithvi and multiple Radar systems are just a few of them. On the horizon are new ones like Dhanush and LCH.
Arjun is one of the few examples of a locally developed system not finding complete acceptance, and looking at the evidence, it does seem that the product is not fit for purpose.
Regards,
Harkirat
I think arjun mbt should be exported to iraq or iran to show it’s worth
Here is my view. I agree with IA. And for DRDO this is what you have asking for. GSQR for FMBT.
There you have it. IA wants 50 tonne Arjun. So either DRDO redesign hull & turret for 3 man, autoloader etc
or
Take a T90 shell (armour & engine) and put Indian components from Arjun on it. Rectify all the problems T90 has.
We now have the knowledge base to build a tank. So get on with it.
This is comical, probably your DRDO is infested by half wits trying to slim a fat lady down. Why bother? Make a new tank this one is for the scrap heap…. having said that carry on spend another 10 years tinkering until you get your slim but now completely obsolete tank. Either way it’s not working…. and there is clearly no vision and no imagination but plenty of cash to burn. It will run out…. cash does run out
I agree…Since you lot are eating grass as per the wishes of Bhutto, it is shameful we are yet to reach such level of expertise…
All this money spending is just for you lot. After all, we will be raining all our weapons on the glorious Paki Army…..
Soon.
Deeply saddened to hear this.
I had thought Arjun had turned a corner with Mark II but it was blindsided. It is infuriating that the standards are set impossibly high for indigenous products during trials while leniency is show for foreign products as mentioned by CAG reports. The death of Arjun Mark II project director just adds to the insult.
If Arjun can beat T-90 in a given scenario, no matter what the weight class or doctrine, Indian Army has to admit that it is a better product. It would be a folly of gigantic proportions if such a better product is not used or supported or is sidelined due to bad treatment.
Let’s be clear. Indian Army’s leadership has been openly appreciative of Arjun’s superior accuracy and firepower.
Good as it is, Arjun cannot in its current form, completely replace the T-series tanks. It simple cannot fight in large areas near our borders, let alone take the fight into enemy territory, where the infrastructure has not been upgraded to support this weight and size.
The Indian Armoured corps, made up of approx. 2000+ T-72s and 2000 T-90s (including planned ones), is structured along Soviet approach to Armoured warfare, i.e. that of overwhelming enemy forces with sheer numbers. Officers and Soldiers have endlessly trained and honed these tactics for years and built infrastructure, systems, processes and contingency plans, centred on these tactics. Now, you cannot change all of that overnight, and not without substantial costs to the Nation, and certainly not to induct 500 odd tanks and leave the process of replacement midway.
Arjun mbt is heavy tank it can be used same way as American army uses m1a2 tanks
They too have won many dessert wars
NATO has deployed them in snow areas bordering Russia
Even leopard tanks are heavy tanks like arjun mbt
To put it briefly, Army generals want to benefit from giving orders for 1000’s of Russian Tanks. As simple as that. WTF!!!!
No the Army generals want to be in the best position to win the next war for the nation. Thus, they need to acquire equipment that fits into their strategy for war, even if that means having baseless allegations thrown at them.
If T90s can’t stand against Arjun, what makes you believe that the junk from Pakistan is going to stand against Arjun. Just address the infrastructure issues and make it easier for Arjun to pave the way for FMBTs which is likely to be heavier than what Army is trying to define as the perfect weight ratio for tanks.
Even being heavy it’s easier to operate than t-90 and can go up 72km/hr
@IA, you need to be more active during the design and development phases of any product. Dont just depute personnel for an easy life. Depute some one who is keen in getting an home grown solution developed. Further, Pl seek for more roles and responsibilities rather than just being user rep. Lead few of teams where you find capable people in IA. Pl just get involved.
@GoI
Pl ensure that user agencies and DRDO are going well. I have heard about lots of ego issues with my colleagues form both sides. All user agencies have engineers working in fields, who have both first hand user experience as well as engineering knowledge. Make them a part of product design and development teams of DRDO. Task them with the developmental work. This will certainly help.
Further, to increase the interaction and involvement among these organizations, depute DRDO personnel to in IA units so then can understand what they are making and for what terrain, and temperament of people using it.
@All. Pl make sure that all agencies involved in development work are collaborating well. We all are paying for these activities. And we are not rich. We have lots of other things too take care of.
Good luck.
This development task is impossible for govt working culture so give it private org. Designated person will just see and make hmm hmmm …. And then what come back to home. At last indian army is there to flush out whole thing. This sarkari working culture will not be able to do anything. Privatise it.
People, relax. This is not 1980-90 where our tank building ecosystem was coming up.
Now we have the ecosystem. Bharat pack engine is progressing. If there is any cutting edge component missing, Israel will provide.
If not Arjun, we will design another one as asked by Army. We now know how to build & produce a tank. This is the key.
If DRDO reduces the weight by 3 tons(From hull and turret redesign ) and replaces engine with Euro Power pack(1800 KG ) then it will save another 3.2 tons. So total 6.2 tons savings = 68.6 – 6.2 = 62.4 arjun Ton tank.
ok…why dont they simply scrap this thing and design a new tank all together with <60 ton in mind…instead of wasting time draw it again from scratch…6 year time we can see a whole new tank standing…comeon man scrap arjun already after 118 mk2 and go for a new design…it is already flawed you cant help it…you have got technology now use it draw a new tank…involve private sector guys comeon we all know arjun is not upto mark for indian requirements no matter how good it is…still it has weak points in its turret…and old engine….
DRDO reducing 3 ton from Hull & turret redesign. By replacing current engine with EuroPowerPack(1800 KG) ie 3.2 ton reduction.
Total Weight = 68.6 – 3.2(redesign) – 3 engine replacement = 62.4 ton.
Terribly spoiled bunch of army men hell bent on imports.
Dear Hari Sud,
You might want to have a look at my comments below (March 28, 2017 at 6:59 pm) and then reassess if you still think this is about imports.
Regards,
Harkirat
I see a lot of Army bashing coming from what seems like biased pro-DRDO/DRDO-funded lobby. More Army bashing is coming from armchair analysts acting on poor information and/or poor analysis. It is thus that I want to share my analysis, targeted at those who visit this site for facts. Hopefully the paragraphs below provides you information to help draw your own informed conclusions.
Allegation 1: The Army does not favour indigenous products:
———————————————————–
Incorrect. The Army has whole heatedly adopted a number of Indigenous weapon systems. The Rudra, ALH, Brahmos, Pinaka, Prithvi and multiple Radar systems are just a few of them. On the horizon are new ones like Dhanush and ALH. Arjun is one of the few examples of a locally developed system not finding complete acceptance.
Allegation 2: BFAT resolves all of Arjun’s mobility issues:
———————————————————–
Incorrect. BFAT address a single issue. It can carry a load of 61 tonnes and thus replaces older railway bogies which were incapable of transporting the Arjun. Arjun’s mobility issues are twofold:
– Arjun’s theatre of operation already excludes mountainous and marshy terrain, where its weight is a distinct disadvantage. Even in this limited theatre of operation (parts of Punjab and Rajasthan border), the Army is still stuck with Rail and Road infrastructure unsuitable for transporting Arjun. Problems include narrow/weak bridges, standard railway track separation which is too narrow to accommodate Arjun’s width and also non-metalled, narrow and winding roads unsuitable for tank transporters. A comprehensive rail and road upgrade program will be extremely expensive and even if money is found for the same, it would be decades before the infrastructure upgrade is complete.
– The German WW2 Blitzkrieg tactics, which forms the bible for modern tank warfare, calls for sharp, swifts and rapid movement of Armoured columns, **into enemy territory**. When War is going favourably, armoured columns don’t suddenly stop on reaching the border. It is this infrastructure on the other side of the border, infrastructure that we have no influence over, that poses the biggest threat and will almost certainly halt the Arjun, and our Army’s advance, in enemy territory.
Allegation 3: The Army has constantly changed the specifications:
—————————————————————-
Completely unreasonable allegation. Technology marches on. As an example, in the last 25 years the Car industry has seen the introduction of Airbags, electronic Stability Control, LED headlamps, GPS Navigation, Bluetooth Integration, dual clutch transmissions, On-Board Diagnostics, remote Tire Pressure Monitoring, reverse parking sensors, parking cameras, Hybrid cars and now Radar-Based Cruise Control and Electric Self driven cars.
It is this rapid advance in technology that has necessitated change and upgrades to keep weapon systems relevant. It is thus, that you have the F-16A/B, Block 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20, F-16C/D Block 25, 30/32, 40/42, 50/52 and many more versions, each version boasting of multiple major and minor improvements over the previous one. The DRDO in the meantime, having started way back in 1972, has struggled to deliver even the basics platform till quiet recently. If anything, the updated specifications, have attempted to keep Arjun relevant, something that shows the Army’s commitment to the platform.
Allegation 4: Comparative trials are being avoided by the Army:
————————————————————–
Incorrect. Not only have comparative trials been carried out by the Army, the Army’s leadership has been openly appreciative of Arjun’s superior accuracy and firepower. The problem is that the Arjun is unsuitable for our Army’s requirements. The Armoured corps, made up of approx. 2000+ T-72s and 2000 T-90s (including planned ones), is structured along Soviet approach to Armoured warfare, i.e. that of overwhelming enemy forces with sheer numbers. Officers and Soldiers have endlessly trained and honed these tactics for years and built infrastructure, systems, processes and contingency plans, centred on these tactics. Should that entire strategy be redefined, officers and soldiers retrained and supply chain reinvented, just so that Arjun can be made our MBT? While it is completely possible, and probably desirable, Modernization of the Army into being less manpower intensive and more technologically advanced force, is a long-term and expensive proposition, that needs to be tackled holistically and cannot be carried out in isolation, in the Armoured corps alone.
Conclusion:
———–
The DRDO has done a good job in turning Arjun into what it is. It has developed and proved multiple technologies. However, the process has taken far too long and the product, while capable in many areas, does not meet the Army requirements today, let alone the requirements of tomorrow. In light of Arjun’s capabilities, the Army has rightly committed itself to buying a limited number of Arjun’s and found ways of optimally deploying the same. However, in light of the shortcomings, only some of which are listed above, it is highly irresponsible to commit more national resources (i.e. money) into buying more Arjuns. Perhaps the best possible way forward would be to use the lessons learnt and the technologies developed, into forming the basis of the next generation MBT.
Correction: On the horizon are new ones like Dhanush and *LCH
Good assessment
Why put the blame on the indian army. Its the DRDO who’s R&D department seems to be stuck in the 1970’s design mindset.
Indian army knows what its asking for, based on actual combat experience.
Recapping to ww2, the german “king tiger tank” was called super tank, tank killer by its designers, it had superior amour and very lethal main gun. On its deployment to the russian and wastern front it failed in a grand way. The heavy tank sank on its own weight, got bogged down in mud. The king tiger II became a sitting over fed duck, only to be picked off inferior russian and british tanks.
If the arjun tank is so superior why is it being compared to the old soviet t-90 tank???
The Indian Army doesn’t know product development plain and simple.
It needs to invest in forming its own design agency staffed with career technical and operational people. They would need to coordinate closely with DRDO for R&D and production agencies for manufacturing.
If it is a good tank but not suited for indian army, why cant it be exported?
Indian Army is right. Arjun MBT is too much overweight. We should not make the same mistake as Germans did during ww2. They traded mobility for protection(Read wikipedia/ww2 history). Remember Panther and other Nazi tanks proved to be ineffective during ww2 against Russians. They could not cross bridges. Moreover they damaged buildings and structures due to their poor mobility. Timing and mobility plays an important role in modern battlefield. Other features like intelligence, weapon systems, … seem impressive.
Indian Army always wanted foreign made, tanks of USA and UK are as heavy and as wide as Arjun. The tracks of Arjun tanks wide enough to distribute weight on ground efficiently. Army complained about rifle as well. They want a lower caliber, then they want dual caliber and now they want to go back earlier caliber. It is Indian army and patriotism begins with honest efforts to try to make Indian industry to meets its requirements rather finding going in circles to avoid made in India. It seams there is a small change at present.
Problem is decadent DRDO with third grade so called scientists. Excess weight is very basic concern that even a layman will understand but not DRDO. Just wasting thousands of crores and also making India dependent on imports. Why not give product development contract to L & T, Tata, Mahindra et el in private sector with funding and assured future orders for the product if meeting the specs? But no! The Govt. is more concerned of the job loss of the useless DRDO staff.
why army didn’t specify tank’s weight requirement while giving its general qualitative requirement to DRDO, while in making also indian army keep changing its tank specification then why IA failed to inform or specify the tank’s weight. after completing trials of arjun mk1 why IA didn’t tell DRDO to reduce the tank’s weight to less than 56 tons and instead gave a list of 70 to 80 improvement over mk 1 which contributed to the weight. IA now emphasizing too much on weight and on account of it rejected the product.
why do DRDO not start another new project on army requirement with main thrust on weight while fulfilling other mentioned specification. arjun mk1 and mk2 experience shall come handy and should take lesser time to develop future infantry fighting vehicle.
Nothing is or can be fully indigenised , my jingoist and irrationally charged friends who are DRDO sympathisers, need to know that only the maintainers and operators of these tanks know the true story if them. A visit to their Chennai factory or reading numerous articles or the stupid CAG report won’t help much ( CAG just looks at numbers , they are bloody beaurocrats who know nothing of combat or putting your life on the line, may even snap out hearing a bullet fire, read the annual defense journel of last and many previous years you will find many critical reports of CAG, what you won’t realise is , it is the soldier on ground who is affected. Many of the PSU employees who have commented, I have seen it first hand, petty politics and appeasement and poor quality products being thrusted onto armed forces,
System is Indian, but internal DSP cards are Israeli make with repair time of 06 months and minimum level of spares maintained.
So to all ambitious PSU employees or applicants to DRDO jobs , keep wasting the previous tax payers money by making such sub standard products and then make stupid innocent face to sell it to us.
That said, pretty sure Indian private sector would had done a much better job.
Arjun is crap.
There are so many reasons in internet which is hurtful. Everyone is laughing because Indians can’t make shit. The flaws are too many. Even some interviews in Foreign media says that Indian army generals are unsatisfied and results of T-90 vs Arjun is rigged. Arjun can’t even shoot in some cases
DRDO should be scrapped. OFB should be scrapped. The unions must be Murdered with abominations like INSAS. Bring private companies. They will design better than govt corrupted organization. We should import. India is and still a joke
Too pity about our country armed forces. No one is talking about their life threat. If we are using this type development organization which is waste if time and money.
No guns,no war heads,no plains,no proper suit. After reading couple if articles our country says Jai Jawan and Jai kisan.
No protection for both of them.
Big country with waste cultural advancements like Vedas not even developing a better gun for our country. This too pity.