What lies beyond India’s push for 36 (plus options) Rafale fighters from France? There’s been a great deal of speculation, fuelled mostly by aggressive offers to build fighters in India. The detritus of the M-MRCA campaign threw up a fertile new field simply because India is still nowhere close to operating the number of fighter jets it needs. Aggressive offers to set up brand new fighter production lines in India from Boeing Defense, Lockheed-Martin and Saab have energised the Make-in-India push for the MoD, but it has still remained largely fuzzy.
But now there’s some rare official clarity and it’s right from the top. Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar was in Hyderabad today where he presided over the ceremonials at a Boeing-Tata event to establish a new facility that will build, for starters, AH-64 fuselages.
In a short speech, where touched upon the MoD’s Make in India plans, he is reported to have said, “If you want aerospace technology to come here and construct here, though I don’t commit anything for F-18. Let me put the disclaimer, that we are definitely in the process of developing one or two ‘fighter Make in India’ programs.“
It isn’t clear what the Minister means by ‘one or two’, but it certainly means at least one. Talk of an F/A-18 line in the country first blipped up on India’s radar last year when Boeing chairman Jim McNerney spoke about it at the India’s Time To Fly event in Delhi:
‘We’d like to build fighters in India’. On stage at @IndiasTimeToFly: @Boeing chairman Jim McNerney. pic.twitter.com/3XHIdDPmUa
— Livefist (@livefist) October 16, 2015
The Minister today didn’t spare a dig at the press too. “When I say ‘disclaimer’, doesn’t mean that you are out. Two incidents that should not be linked with press, as Indian press is very imaginative; that’s why I’m making this statement.”
He has a point. Apart from a couple of reports, including this one in the trusty Stratpost, much of what has been said or written so far about India’s next big fighter contest remains in the realm of speculation, persistently muddied by the bean count of squadron strength requirements and how the MoD traditionally works. The truth is, much has changed, including in the methodologies being embraced by acquisition managers to shore up strength. It patently isn’t about plain numbers anymore — more on that in a future post, shortly.
As things stand, in India its a three-way contest between Boeing, Lockheed-Martin and Saab for a highly lucrative Indian production line of their mainstay fighter jets: the F/A-18 Super Hornet, the F-16 Block 60 IN and the Gripen NG.
Livefist has learnt however that contest rules, which will be framed by October, could stipulate the requirement for a single engine fighter aircraft to preclude the tender going down the notoriously abortive path India’s MMRCA did, with its mix of medium and light twin/single engine jets. The Indian Air Force is understood to have submitted that narrowing the field to a single engine requirement would forestall any of the enormous comparison issues that bedeviled the earlier competition. The Ministry of Defence is yet to take a full decision on this though.
The Minister was clearly very pleased with the establishment of the new facility, given its a loud bang for the Make in India campaign, a push that has been criticised as largely cosmetic. With a facility that will churn out Apache fuselages for all future global customers eventually, the Minister didn’t hold back on the joy.
“Let me first acknowledge Boeing kept their word. A promise that was given to me after we concluded the Apache and Chinook deal; that after the offset this particular facility will be located in India and by shifting it from the place they already had the facility. Keeping their word, and I always think that those who remember what they say at the time of celebration and complete it afterwards are people to be noted for future references. Let me acknowledge Boeing for this deal,” the Minister said. That’s a lot to say in these grey, turbulent times for contracting.
ALSO READ: Livefist reported recently on Saab’s aggressive pitch on the Make in India Gripen NG too.
We have had more than a decade of song and dance on this MMRCA, no end in sight. Hope the IAF gets something good and economical. We can trust the Raksha Mantri and IAF to ensure choice will be prudent.
despite make in India these program cost for each unit does not come down significantly, denoting:
1) Its a assemble in india program & not make in india
2) since components are imported therefore ToT remain within US & EU allies boundary
3) No local industry get benefits from this program significantly
4) Its a soon to be retired platform (not beyond 2030 by NATO)
therefore final questions remain, why media raise such crucial questions & remain admiring such programs – selling out their soul, duty ?
the offers have lots of juicy carrots. I am sure a selection will be made keeping the best interest of the countruy. It will certainly be a big push for Make in India. Besides it will provide keen compition to HAL which is also good.
Does anyone seriously believe in these rhetorics? It was this same defense minister who loudly proclaimed in May that Rafale deal will be signed by June and livefist was quick enough to flash that news…Today is 20th June and do we really expect the deal to be signed in next 10 days? And where is the FGFA deal that was also supposed to be signed in June 2016?
So we should take these type of rhetorics with a pinch of salt, if not in complete disbelief….
Hi Livefist,
I some how feel that your posts are a bit deviated towards Boeing. Anyways, keep up the good work.
A wholly unfair charge. I get accused of ‘deviating’ towards nearly every company or subject. I’m guessing that means I’m neutral! 🙂 Judge me by my coverage.
No surprises here… first one will be Tejas Mk1A or Mk2, second one will be follow-on order of 90 Rafales. I hate to break it to Viper/Hornet fanboys, F-16s and 18s simply won’t see the light of the day in IAF. As for MRCAs for IN’s INS Vishal, I believe there will be stiff competition bn. Rafales and F-35C. We’ll have to wait and watch.
The Rafale deal is making even less sense now. If you are going to assemble F/A`18 in India, why buy 36 of a separte type? This mess is once again showing that there is no long term logic in MOD.
This is a thoroughly idiotic move. When we have a Tejas in development, why in the world do we need any other fighter jet ? We’re already procuring 36 Rafale jets in a knee-jerk reaction. Now however, with Tejas Mk. 1A already developed, there’s absolutely no need of new fighter jets at all.
1) The Tejas Mk.1 A is equivalent or superior to the Mirage-2000 of the IAF, which incidentally was IAF’s original choice of the MRCA. It can replace the entire MiG fleet in the IAF from MiG-21 to MiG-29.
2) The Tejas Mk.1 A is the perfect embodiment of “Make in India”. In contrast, any foreign design assembled on Indian soil would only tantamount to “Copy-paste in India.”
3) If HAL’s capacity of 8 Tejas / year is insufficient, by all means marshal the private sector to ramp up the capacity to 16 or 24 units per year. If it readily can be done for some imported plane, why not Tejas ?
4) The combination of Su-30 MKI wih Tejas is sufficient to defend India’s skies from any aggression and also punch deep into enemy territory.
It would be a crying shame, were India — a nation already having its own fighter jet, and a next gen jet in development — to go shopping abroad for fighter jets. This smacks of cronyism and little else (refer to luminaries like Anil Ambani, who is salivating at foreign partnerships, and Shri SP Tyagi, an alleged agent of foreign firms).
With the opening up of defense purchases from countries other than the Russian bloc, our “defense analysts/experts” have already sold their heart and soul to defense manufacturers the world over many time around already. Traveling for “unveilings” to foreign countries on First Class / Business Class tickets and being put up in expensive hotels with “bags of goodies” as parting gifts, these breed of people have not indulged in unbiased reporting in years.
No surprises then that media personnel with vested interests are busy promoting one or the other brand of defense equipment. Same applies to our IAF.
Mind you i am not against our forces getting their hands on the best, latest and safest equipment. I would love to see a envy of the world aircraft fly in our IAF colors. But that is not what everyone else desires.
While the media is “exited” about the impeding Rafael deal, how many commentators have even bothered to dwell into the true requirements of the IAF. Will we keep buying Heavy fighters when we need light fighters more or does anyone any idea of the logistical nightmare of maintaining 7-8 different fighters/cargo platforms with nothing in common or the sortie rates these planes can pull of on the two front war we should be preparing for at this very moment.
what message do we send when the Air force rejects a particular aircraft and subsequently the Government wants to purchase the same !. The MMRCA farce must end. Time to scrap rafale and give the entire order to Boeing.
It’s time that GOI takes a bold decision and allow F-16s to be manufactured in India by Lockheed Martin along with an Indian Partner.
F-16’s are the only MMRCA jet that India can afford in large numbers to allow IAF to reach its desired 42 squadron strength or even more.
The only additional feature that F-16s should have for IAF is the Buddy-Buddy Refuelling capability so that F-16’s can remain in air for a longer duration of time without using any huge Tanker Aircraft.
If GOI allows F-16s to be manufactured in India then Lockheed Martin is ready to shift its production line in India…..This will allow the development of Indian Aerospace ecosystem which is very much necessary for the development on the Nation.
Now, Boeing is also providing the same option for F-18s….So, Why not choose F-18’s??….The answer is simple….F-18’s are not as much good dogfighters as F-16 and being a twin engine jet it will be costlier to operate a F-18…..The biggest question that NO one answers is What will happen to the production line of F-18s when IAF’s desired squadron strength is achieved as No Asian Nation (apart from South Korea and Japan ) can afford western twin engine jets.
And,Next biggest question is Why not directly buy F-35’s rather than wasting money on F-16’s??…..The answer is very simple….Firstly, Lockheed Martin is offering to manufacture F-16’s in India which will help create an Aerospace industry in the Nation whereas F-35s will only provide a Military edge for a few years But F-16s production in India will provide Knowledge, which is of paramount importance for a Nation like ours.
Secondly, China’s PLAAF is replacing it’s 3rd generation aircraft with 4+ Generating aircraft and It clearly indicates that 4+ generation aircraft is going to affect the Geo-Politics of the South Asian Region for the next 20 to 25 years……and India should prepare itself for its own challenges rather than getting in an Arms race with the Western Nations.
Thirdly,Lockheed Martins F16 production line can also used for providing F-16s and its spares to Middle Eastern Nations as well as South Asian Nation which are involved in the South China Sea dispute like Vietnam,Indonesia etc…..This also allows the opportunity for India to get in an arrangement with USA to never allow any further spare parts delivery to PAF for F-16 jets and this will reduce PAF’s technological capabilities against IAF.
Fourthly, India’s regional responsibilities are increasing every year and More & More South Asian as well as Sub-Sahara African Nations want India’s presence in their region….Like for such a long time Afghanistan Government and Armed forces wants India to show it’s Military presence in their Nation to help them Fight against the Taliban forces and to help citizens of Afghanistan to retain a Democratic government.
Rafale is a great aircraft and I’ve no doubt about it….Rafale is better than F-16s in many parameter But It’s quite obvious that French designed Rafale jets to counter the Russian Su-27 and it’s derivatives….But, like most western jets Rafale is also smaller in size when compared to it’s Russian counterparts i.e. Mig-35 or Su-30….IAF cannot afford in Rafale jets in large numbers and I also don’t understand How Rafale as a MMRCA can complement Su30mki’s??
It’s better for GOI to buy 36 Rafale-M(Naval version) for Indian Navy…..Indian Navy is facing severe Operational deficiencies with Mig-29k’s and French did some stimulated tests of Rafale-M jets and found out that Rafale-M can be operated from ski-jump aircraft carriers like INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant too…..Rafale-M can provide a huge advantage to Indian Navy as it will be superior to MIg-29K’s in every parameter be it Air frame, Avionics, Dog fighting capabilities, Range and Payload capacity.
France has offered to invest in Kaveri engines if India buys 36 Rafale jets and This offer should not be ignored,…..If Kaveri Engines are able to produce the required thrust with some french help then India will make a very big leap forward in Jet engine technology as well as becoming a much more technologically advanced Nation.
Tejas jets can greatly complement F-16’s and F-16’s can greatly complement Su-30mki’s…Making a perfect Trio combination for IAF’s 4+ generation aircraft……India has already invested in the FGFA project…..So,It’s much more sensible for Buy FGFA for getting 5th generation technologies….FGFA may or may not be as stealthy as F-22 or F-35 but One thing is for sure that FGFA going to provide the much more required technological edge against PLAAF’s 5th generation jets i.e J-20 and J-31.
And, If a much more stealthy 5th generation jet will be required then F-35 will always be an option.
It’s better to develop AMCA as a 6th generation aircraft because 5th generation aircraft are too much dependent on stealth for their survival and its always more economical make much more potent radars then making stealthy aircraft….And,Till the time AMCA will be ready the World be seeing the Dawn of 6th generation aircraft…..Many Western Nations like U.K. and France are planning to directly invest their resources in developing indigenous 6th generation jets rather than wasting these resources in developing a 5th generation jet….On the other hand, India is going to get some of the 5th generation technologies for Russia to manufacture FGFA and It’s much more sensible to use our resources for developing a 6th generation aircraft rather than wasting it one 5th generation platforms.
Rafael contract was supposed to be signed months ago , nothing is mentioned about it now about the “talks” have now shifted to mega projects like F-16 , F-and Grippen to be moved to Hindustan ! My the time it ever happens IAF would be flying Kites .
I hope DRDO and HAL are not involved in this..otherwise it will be another 35 years before we see a prototype of it…
Consider this : IAF has at present in its inventory
1. HCA 272 Su-30 MKI Which is adequate at present with upgrades to Super Sukhoi
2. MCA – 120 Jaguar, 60 MiG 29, 50 Mirage 2000 , 36 Rafaels Totalling 266 Which is also adequate at present with upgrades .
3 That leaves out the LCA for which 83 are ordered for Tejas Mark 1A.
Now RM wants to build in India 200 F-16s or Gripen-Es in India which could go up to $ 20 Billions.
Instead the RM coild very well order another 157 Tejas Mk 2 for single engine aircraft to make up the numbers and then concentrate on the 5th Gen Aircraft
We are committed to 127 Pak Fa -50 Russian jets and with the Savings from the $20 billions we could go in for atleast 100 F-35s so that we have enough time for developing the ACMA . The urgency is because the Slitties have unveiled a basic working version of the J-20 and JC-31 – Both Stealth and we are still grappling with the nearly outdated single engine jets. Since it will not be manufactured anywhere in the world all of them are keen to dump it on India. And we Indians – born suckers that we are are ever ready to buy these junks.What a shame and disgrace !!!
In case of the changed situation of Donald Trump and LM not willing to give us F-35 , we should divert these jets to Russia and but 227 jets of Pak Fa-50s
Hope you are listening Mr Parrikar !!!